Unsolved Irish Mysteries.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123549194#Comment_123549194

Yes, it was reported that a former co-worker was on the 44 when she said she saw Annie board and go upstairs. This woman stayed downstairs, and got off before Enniskerry with Annie still on board. In that case it's understandable the Gardai had a firm belief that Annie headed towards Enniskerry. But of course they shouldn't have been blinded to it being a possible mistake and ignored other possibilities.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123548845#Comment_123548845

I believe Johnny Fox girl turned out to be another American, this was reason for confusion - bear in mind, it was less than 2 weeks after Patricks Day, could have been American tourist who'd gone back home or was in the middle of a trip around Europe and never ever realised she'd been confused with a missing person in Ireland.

Plus, what Caquas said above.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123549194#Comment_123549194

I thought that was reported as well - but media reporting on the case has not always been top-notch, as we've discovered. Even if report was from work colleague, could have been mistaken identity by someone who worked part time with her and didn't know her that well. We've all had the experience of being on a bus or in public and seeing someone who we think we know and going 'oh, is that X/Y/Z? looks like her/him, nah maybe not, best not embarass myself by saying hi'.

I had an experience decades ago, was in New York with friends for the Breeders' Cup, noticed a fella who looked familar with another bloke standing near our group, conversing (I was thinking, "that bloke is the mirror split of my cousin Robert. Couldn't be him though, sure what would he be doing at a horse race, that's not his thing.") then he and his mate went off somewhere else, probably to get a drink or place a bet or something. Only found out a few months later, it was him all along, he'd been in NY for work and decided to check out the Breeders' Cup!

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123548954#Comment_123548954

To take an admittedly extreme case, if it's wasn't for a lucky break followed by, to give them credit, a rigorous and comprehensive AGS investigation, a certain person would still in 2025 be living his life as a successful professional (I'm thinking a person with Foxrock/Cork connections) instead of being banged up in one of Dublin 1's less salubrious hotels. I hear the room service isn't that great there, though the rooms do feature a good choice of tv channels.

cap.in.hand.

Looking at the house sale advertisement pictures incl garden in 2009/2010...that garden would have matured a lot in the 17 years between 1993 and 2009/2010 …so a good chance a lot of bare areas were there in 1993 in that garden...under the pretence of putting in shrubs in a part of the garden wouldn't look out of place to cover up the fresh earth to the family

jesuisjuste

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550012#Comment_123550012

Interestingly there has been two extensions built, which may be the reason a cadaver dog is necessary, vs just digging. Could have been done to permanently cover the body.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550082#Comment_123550082

Extensions would involve removing earth for foundations ...you'd hope bones weren't dumped in with the removal of earth

jesuisjuste

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550110#Comment_123550110

It used to be a thing in with mafia, put bodies in foundations, or multiple bodies in one official grave etc., however unlikely to easily do it in Ireland alright.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123548646#Comment_123548646

the late Charlie Haughty comes to mind . Did Mary Harney say something in the Dail that the Judge said could prejudice his case and at least postponed the hearing until ‘things died down’?

LunaLoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550082#Comment_123550082

The extensions were built by the new owners of the house so unless the remains were buried very close to the original house theres unlikely to be anything under the extensions. The extensions were applied for in 2011 then permission for some modifications were applied for in 2012 so long after Annie disappeared

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550233#Comment_123550233

That was a civil case, IIRC. But ironically or appropriately, when he was still in office, and as Taoiseach, Haughey himself almost inadvertently ruined a criminal trial - a serious one, too, murder, it was during the time of the GUBU events, he made some reference to being glad that the guards had caught the culprit…he made comments to UK media because he was in the UK at the time, Irish media were told strictly not to report them, which they didn't. Good thing too, as McArthur's defence could have tried to push the 'unfair trial, jury was influenced by media reports' angle. At the time Haughey made the comments, McArthur had been arrested but trial hadn't commenced, IIRC. (My source is one of the books about Haughey, so you won't necessarily find this on the net.)

jesuisjuste

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550321#Comment_123550321

Well it's not like they're going to just ignore the area under the extension. If they have a cadaver dog in searching, under the extension would surely be a search area since it was open ground at the time of the murder. Adds a significant amount of complexity to the search, in addition to the size of the garden. They would have gone through the garden completely, but then also perhaps had to drill some holes through the floor I would imagine.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550360#Comment_123550360

Alleged perp is a free man for now, wonder if he'll up be turning at the house to offer assistance and see how things are going? He does have a previous history of helping the guards out in missing women cases.

A very public-spirited individual, apparently.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550082#Comment_123550082

One very large extension plus a large garden shed were built after the house was bought by the new owners so there must have been a fair amount of disturbance to the garden. If something was buried it would seem crazy to sell the house and anyone who knew wouldn’t want that, but buying out five siblings isn’t cheap. Can’t see how anything was buried in 93 when family members were still living there.
It’s not like the TS situation where her husband had all the time and privacy to dig up the floor to cover his crime.

Crakepottle?

Gosh I know it's a first world problem compared to poor Annie's fate, but imagine the current owners having this nightmare visited upon them out of the blue.

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550428#Comment_123550428

He was the 2nd youngest in the family...his siblings may have all moved out at that stage ...it may be only him and his mother living there in 1993...not too sure when his father and younger brother died....he himself would 30+ years in 1993

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550437#Comment_123550437

True. People are resilient though. I know a house where a literal murder was committed, it's near my mum's place, murder was in relatively recent years too (less than a decade ago). It wasn't a bullet in the head type murder, it was real bad stuff. Case was solved quickly enough and I think the perp was deemed to be totally insane and is still in nuthouse. The then house owner, who wasn't directly implicated, allegedly involved in drugs and was letting his house be used by drug addicts, I never found out exact details. In any case, house was sold since murder, I think previous owner either went into long term rehab or just decided to get out of dodge, due to the history.

In any case, new owners and occupants of house completely normal and cause no trouble and have renovated house. Personally, I wouldn't buy a house where such events had taken place in recent history, but that's just me.

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550387#Comment_123550387

Public spirited? Interesting. Charity work etc?

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550533#Comment_123550533

Not that I'm aware of. I sent you a PM.

NoeldeBournaix

I find the whole 'witness' situation interesting, not just this case. Of course there are genuine witnesses, but there seems to be plenty of others who just make things up for various reasons. Whether tricks of the mind as mentioned earlier, or people desperately wanting to help and so start making things up.

Another interesting thing is that for every missing person, the guards are plagued with psychics and there is often pressure on them from the families to follow up on these 'leads'.

“Gardai were invited to receive information about one of the cases handled by Operation Trace. The detectives drove to a house in the midlands where they were invited to attend a seance where those in attendance named someone who they claimed killed Annie McCarrick. The psychics called the next day to say they had been contacted by other spirits who claimed the spirit who gave the information had been lying. They said the spirit was a bad one.”

https://www.thetimes.com/world/ireland-world/article/psychic-sleuths-drive-gardai-mad-qbwz7z6m9zn

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550774#Comment_123550774

'Psychics' are a absolute curse. I don't understand why the cops give them any credence. even allowing for family pressure or families being emotionally manipulated. Tougher approach needed?

Kimiko 75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550816#Comment_123550816

I guess it's not because they are psychics, it's because they are people claiming they have information, anyone claiming to have information has to be interviewed and ruled in or out.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550837#Comment_123550837

Interesting first post, Kimiko 75!

There's no such thing as a psychic, for a start. That's the first point I'd make.

The second is that, incidentally, the AGS don't have to interview any person claiming to have information, they do and should operate on a 'does this pass the basic smell-test?' basis.

According to the posted article from the UK Times, it seems that AGS still feel morally obliged to give these frauds credence. I know what I'd tell them, but then again I'm not in charge of the AGS, or even an ordinary D-Garda therein.

Kimiko 75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550877#Comment_123550877

Well there are people that claim to be psychic, but that doesn't mean that they are.

The 'basic smell test ' would usually involve speaking to the person who has made any claims and deciding if it is credible or not.

NoeldeBournaix

In the Deirdre Jacob case:

"On January 21 gardaí questioned a middle-aged man who claimed he had given a lift to a young woman answering Deirdre's description on Tuesday July 28 from Clane to Carrickmacross in Monaghan. In a number of anonymous phone calls to gardaí and to local media, the man insisted the girl was Deirdre Jacob. On several occasions gardaí appealed to him to come forward so they could eliminate him from their inquiries. Finally gardaí traced the man and found his claim was untrue. It was a lavish hoax."

"But for the four months gardaí tried to track the man, Bernadette and Michael Jacob went in search of Deirdre around the border area retracing their daughter's visit to Cavan and her movements. Every weekend they made the journey northwards. There was a kind of hope in their search. They were devastated to learn that it had all been for nothing."

https://m.independent.ie/news/missing/26260298.html

I read somewhere else that this 'witness' had recently lost a daughter and his own grief had somehow led to him to making this story up.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550894#Comment_123550894

Ok. In this particular case, according to media reports, AGS have spoken to the person who has made claims from his hospital bed in France. I would assume and hope that they have come to a decision that the claims are credible and that the person is not so mentally or physically ill that he is delusional. Or that there has been some kind of family falling out and that what has happened recently is his revenge. These are possibilities. Unlikely in my view, based on recent media reportage - but possible.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550931#Comment_123550931

I remember when they played a recording of one of his calls on Crimeline (or whatever it was called then, late 90s).

NoeldeBournaix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550947#Comment_123550947

Thankfully no other 'witness' came forward in Monaghan, otherwise it could have ended up similar to the Annie McCarrick case and the focus on Johnnie Foxes.

Crakepottle?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123550934#Comment_123550934

The person in France was doubtlessly brought up to believe in an afterlife and divine retribution. While it may be possible to park those beliefs in one's youth, they come to the fore again as a person runs out of time. Maybe this person has made a final confession to a priest and has been advised to come clean for the sake of his immortal soul.

mazdamiatamx5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123551062#Comment_123551062

That's entirely possible, probable even.