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Shooting in Carlow

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭plodder


    That's a pretty alarming headline in the IT. It says that arms were supplied by the gardai not just delivered. Though presumably they arrest the recipient and don't leave any such contraband with them.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Why not read the sources if you are going to comment, the weapons came from the gardai's store of previously seized weapons.

    Post edited by expectationlost on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    its an escalation of a crime from seeking weapons and failing to actually acquiring multiple military grade weapons.

    they were charged with possession when they actually incapable of actually acquiring such weapons illegally https://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/news/courts/three-men-found-with-guns-appear-in-court_arid-55564.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    The Journal article stated it was a controlled delivery. It made no suggestion that the firearms in the controled deivery may have come from garda resources.

    The MoS article and X link do state the firearms came from garda resources. Neither clarify the route the firearms took from ordering to delivery and whether the gardaí intercepting the delivery had any knowledge of the wider operation.

    It's a leap to say the gardaí in court lied about not knowing the source of the firearms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    again read the Mail on Sunday article more carefully https://x.com/gavreilly/status/1932516018544652450/photo/2

    it says 'firearms already in possession of the gardai were delivered'.

    that excerpt is a follow up on articles related the poor storage and recording of firms by the gardai https://www.thesun.ie/news/14821803/cocaine-found-garda-hq-locker-faulty-gun-holsters-force/

    The gardai lied about the provenance of the weapons in court.

    Post edited by expectationlost on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Hippodrome Song Owl


    Could the Gardai have intercepted the firearms ordered by this lad on the dark web, once they entered the country, then completed the delivery as part of their sting operation? They may still not know the origin of the weapons, but would be carrying out a controlled delivery of firearms already in their possession. I'd have thought that type of thing was a common tactic when it comes to drugs, illegal medicines etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,689 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    he didn't fail though

    How do you know he was actually incapable of illegally acquiring such weapons?

    There were lots of sting operations back in the day against the IRA, loyalists, South Africa, etc. and convictions achieved

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    the weapons came from the garda store of seized weapons

    https://x.com/gavreilly/status/1932516018544652450/photo/2 they were not imported from overseas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    He isnt an organised terrorist group, just a disturbed person.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    One needs to make a distinction between The Gardaí (An Garda Síochanna) as a force ( and individual sections within The Gardaí and other security organisations) and the gardaí as individuals in court.

    There is insufficient information in the articles to substantiate a claim that the gardaí immediately involved in the court case lied.

    The operational details are vague so the full provenance and path from source to delivery of the firearms is up to debate.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Charge should be really ; Conspiring,Procuring and attempting to illegally import prohibited weapons into the Irish state".Obviously the 3 stooges here must have paid someone ,somewhere,something for this deal to go thru[procuring]That alone is enough for criminal charges as it shows intent to commit a crime .

    The possesion charge is a lot easier,as all they have to have is the packages in their possesion for 60 seconds or less for it to be a valid charge. Before someone says "entrapment".There is NO such concept in Irish law.IOW AGS delivering these guns and giving them to the trio,proably even advising whats on offer is perfectly legal here ,as are honey traps,infiltration of "subversive groups" and incitement to commit unlawful acts.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,863 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    There's a lot more info/clarification in this piece today - Evan Fitzgerald case: How ‘controlled deliveries’ are used in Garda sting operations – The Irish Times

    It's subscriber-only, but the salient part is "Garda Commissioner Drew Harris confirmed Evan Fitzgerald, the armed 22-year-old who took his own life in a Carlow shopping centre on the June bank holiday weekend, had been charged with gun crimes after a “controlled delivery” of firearms last year.

    On that occasion, gardaí received a tip-off from international policing agency Interpol that unidentified parties in Ireland were active on the darknet trying to buy guns. Gardaí acted on that intelligence, going on to the darknet and offering guns to the suspects.

    A face-to-face meeting was later arranged, with the guns and money exchanged. Mr Fitzgerald, who did not realise he was dealing with undercover gardaí running a sting operation, was arrested. The guns were two firearms that were in Garda stores and had been decommissioned."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Indo reporting that there were two pairs of illegally acquired guns (the shotgun aside). https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/gardai-defend-use-of-controlled-deliveries-as-td-claims-carlow-shooter-was-given-garda-gun-before-his-arrest/a1100293886.html

    the Indo reports

    It is also understood that Tokarev and Makarov pistols were seized in follow-up operations.

    Where did he get them?

    The Irish Times also refers to the 'controlled delivery' of two guns https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/2025/06/12/garda-inquiry-into-evan-fitzgerald-followed-tip-off-irish-person-trying-to-buy-guns-on-darknet/

    Although all the reports from the hearing in April suggest they were all found at the same time, during the post sting arrest. https://www.kildare-nationalist.ie/news/three-men-found-with-guns-in-kildare-appear-in-court_arid-55354.html

    In the Indo McDowell said

    "It now appears that Gardaí had previously met at least one of the three, and, without revealing their identity, made arrangements for the firearms and ammunition in question to be delivered.

    Post edited by expectationlost on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,897 ✭✭✭plodder


    Yeah, that's interesting and it provides a bit of detail on the entrapment angle that's been exercising people like Michael McDowell and Alan Kelly who I think has been fairly irresponsible in his comments.

    “Fanaticism is always a sign of repressed doubt” - Carl Jung



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,258 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    It is also understood that Tokarev and Makarov pistols were seized in follow-up operations.

    Where did he get them?

    It doesnt specify if they were deactivated or live firing functioning pistols.As theses are two of the most common pistols leaking into Europe from Russia and the former Yougoslavia.he could have picked them up from anyone ,anywhere, or was this part of the AGS operation and the Irish media in its usual manner,has missed out that pertinent detail.

    Surprised that a former barrister Mr McDowell,doesn't know that Entrapment is a non existent term or concept in our legislation and while no doubt sneaky and underhanded,it's a ligit tool of Law enforcement and was used correctly in this case.

    A face-to-face meeting was later arranged, with the guns and money exchanged. Mr Fitzgerald, who did not realise he was dealing with undercover gardaí running a sting operation, was arrested. The guns were two firearms that were in Garda stores and had been decommissioned.

    Definately utterly niave.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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