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Rugby 101 - Know your rucks from your mauls!

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    Law 9.6 - "A player must not obstruct, or in any way interfere with an opponent while the ball is dead."

    Sanction is a penalty and I would suggest this covers the scenario you've described



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,286 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I don’t think it does at the moment. There’s often a tussle for the ball because the player in touch won’t give it up. When he prevents a throw in there may be no sanction even where a try might be scored. We’re talking about something that can impede the flow of attacking play. Why not let the ref, say, count to three and then award a penalty if the player hasn’t released the ball?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,437 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    You don't need to penalise all those times a quick throw might be attempted. More often than not a lineout is formed so quick throw couldn't even happen anyway. It can't be a straight yes or no in terms of ref counting to 3 and then giving a penalty



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 610 ✭✭✭TheSunIsShining


    E

    The referee already has the discretion to give a penalty if he/she believes that a player is preventing a quick throw in from happening or is interfering with play moving on. Much of rugby is structured on a referee being able to interpret the laws as appropriate - hence you have laws rather than a rule book - and I don't think introducing a law such as you are describing is required given that it is already covered. I.e. as things stand, if a player held onto a ball after going into touch as you describe then a ref already has the means to penalise that player.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,286 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Could Beirne have been yellow carded for holding onto Itoje before Kelleher’s disallowed try? It was fairly blatant cheating.

    Another Itoje question. How much contact is allowed in a lineout by the other team when a player is being held aloft? That penalty seemed soft.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    If he was preventing a try he'd deserve a try, it's unusual to see cards at that end of the field for attacking players unless dangerous play

    I thought we were steeped to get that penalty, ball was overthrown too.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Itoje knew full well what he was doing. He made contact with the lifter and he very clearly did it deliberately, which is a completley no-no. It was soft, but only moreso in the sense that it was daft for Itoje to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Squidge Rugby covered that in depth. Itoje's little nudge caused Conan's lifter to slip his hold slightly and Conan didn't get high enough to take the catch. It was very well done. But even more well done for BOK or his AR to spot it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,286 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Not a rules question. Did Sheehan overthrow that ball anyway or did Itoje cause the miss?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Personally, I think he did and I think if an Irish player was penalised like that we'd be up in arms over it.

    Very soft penalty to get



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    I thought similarly until I saw Squidge Rugby's analysis. Itoje used his forearm to cause Conan's lifter's (Ryan) hand to slip so he didn't get him high enough and also a rotation away from the ball.

    It was class dark arts from Itoje, looked so innocuous, but completely screwed up the lift. Video should start at the right time.

    Post edited by CMOTDibbler on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,286 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Owen Doyle in the IT mentions a few must haves for lineouts including one of my pet peeves:

    Just make sure a few basic things happen − clearly establish the metre-channel between the two teams; and that the thrower stands correctly on the mark, not opposite his own front man. Finally, make sure the ball travels within the metre channel, along the inside shoulders of the lineout players.

    Not opposite his own front man. Is it time for soccer’s magic spray can to mark the metre channel and for the TMO to play a larger role in enforcing compliance?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I don't know about using the disappearing spray but its gas now, the ref blows the whistle, tells everyone where they should stand and as he's walking back to his spot the opposition are closing the gap, the thrower is stepping towards his team and possibly infield too and it's play on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,986 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I recall seeing guidance somewhere that the thrower can line up favouring his side, so long as his outside foot and shoulder are aligned with the centre mark.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,991 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Was really peed off with Bulls players kicking away the ball after the ref had blown his whistle, last Saturday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Jumping into/over a tackle…was there a new law introduced specifically outlawing this or is it still just considered 'dangerous play'?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Just the general interpretation of dangerous play.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,062 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Any sign of that Rugby 101 PDF for 2025 @MJohnston?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,146 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I'm working on getting it back up on a website - I'll update here when it's done!



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,495 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Ball-carrier (BC) is tackled by defender (D1) and partially held up. BC gets a knee down. Another defender (D2) grabs a hold of the ball.

    Is BC immediately penalisable for not releasing the ball?

    Is D1 penalisable for not immediately releasing BC?

    If D1 releases BC but he's still partially standing due to D2's hold on the ball, is that a penalty against BC? When does the law about BC being allowed to immediately pass or place the ball apply?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,991 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    My thoughts, follow through on the actions. BC gets a knee to the ground, so tackle is successful, he should be able to place the ball, if he can. D2 joining before he does so, makes it a ruck, BC must release the ball.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,576 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Whereas in reality, if another attacker joins the ball carrier and the ball carrier manages to get their knee to the ground, the ref will shout "tackle, release" the tackler/s stand off and then the ref ignores the attacking team making 5 or 10 meters before going to ground or releasing the ball.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,781 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Why do we not see more attempts at drop goals? I appreciate they are difficult to achieve correctly, but when up against a stronger team, you're 5-10 metres from the try line but their defense is relentless and are not letting you in, why don't you pass it back a bit and in Ireland's case, pass it back to Sam Prendergast and score(or try to) score a drop goal?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 5,437 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Just not worth it. going for try or at least working a penalty gives you better chance of a score.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Garbisi today showed why they aren't attempted more often.

    Fair enough, **** weather, but 10 yards out on a pen advantage and still shanks it wide.

    Look at George Ford for when drops are valuable, after that, out halves only consider them during the end game



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,991 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    With the kick off you're then back inside your own 22. Worth trying if you stretch your lead to over 7 points or cut your deficit to under 7 points.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,781 ✭✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Thats why I was confused. A successful drop kick goal is 3 points. Yes a try at 5 is more, but we have seen many times where we are facing a team, well defending the try line, and what, hope we get a penalty?

    Garbisi today showed why they aren't attempted more often.

    The conditions were appalling. Not the kind of conditions I'd suggest for one. Wet, windy, greasy ball, bad visibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,008 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Ball kicked dead through in-goal

    Law 21.11

    If a team kicks the ball through their opponents’ in-goal from the field of play into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead-ball line, the defending team can choose:

    a. To have a drop-out anywhere on or behind the 22-metre line; or

    b. To have a scrum at the place where the ball was kicked.

    Is this too harsh ?

    In most other situations Refs routinely signal penalty advantage & play on, and then return to the location of the offence even after the non-offending team has gained ground.

    Surely a more equitable outcome to a penalty 'kicked dead' would be lineout awarded to the non-offending side rather than to the side who were penalised ?.

    Thoughts ?



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  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 45,403 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    no

    kicking a penalty dead is one of the stupidest things that a player can do on a rugby field. its risk / reward.

    if you risk trying to eek out every last meter but kick it dead, then you pay the price. Its just as easy take a few meters off and make sure the ball goes out.

    Sexton was often derided for not getting a lot of yardage on his pen kicks to touch, but i never remember him ever kicking a penalty dead.

    (probably did happen, but i cant recall any infamous incidents)

    to expand your opinion, where does the defending team get the lineout from? the 5 meter line?



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