Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

It is a bigger issue than just housing and the housing tsar fiasco is just another symptom of the bigger problem. There is a great YouTube video which essentially explains what the fundamental issue with the country is;

Why Ireland feels poor

In short; in 2015 the State spent €54bn; in 2023 it was €90bn. This money has gone mainly on turning the State into a giant administration monster between quangos, consultants, salaries for non-frontline admin workers - quite simply the "State" is too large and inefficient. It genuinely does need a DOGE type entity or a Bord Snip to come in and gut the quangos, instead focusing on getting the infrastructure and housing built.

With a Spanish or Italian accent

That's a narrative driven by politics and media, two sectors identified as big contributers to the last boom bust cycle

Almost everything the construction industry federation lobby for is granted. The criticism is unwarranted

Same hen house guarded by 2 foxes

Leverage the dysfunction

So what you want is a bunch of politicians to sacrifice their careers or some non politicians to go into politics and be super effective but go against the will of the majority? That doesn't sound viable or effective. Look at grass root movements over the last 20 years and see how many survive few years without imploding. There aren't many that survive without some scandal or internal fighting. The public criticism of such organizations is not minor either. SF tried to get into power with promises of housing reform which the public just didn't trust and didn't get into power.

You are dreaming and might as well suggest a magician comes along and solves the problem. The public are responsible for many of the issues in housing because a lot of people own housing and due inheritance from property. What most people arguing about housing want is to take it away from others and get it cheaper.

It sounds great when it is not your stuff being taken. If I have paid my taxes and bought something why is somebody else entitled to it for less than I paid for it? It is one thing if it loses value but another thing completely if it is going up in value.

I am sure you know people less well off than you, why aren't you giving them your stuff?

Yes because that's exactly what I meant, let's have everyone give away all their stuff. You know that's not the point I was making and I'm not going to argue with you when your stance is purely "I'm alright Jack".

It is what I said and you said that is what most people want too and the ideal. I never said give away all their stuff just that you seem happy when others have stuff taken away it is fine with you once it is not yours. That is truly "I am alright jack" . Can you explain why anything should be taken away from anybody else so the another person gets it cheaper? It has a name and it is communism.

What most people arguing about housing want is to take it away from others and get it cheaper.

Fianna Fail got nearly 70 years of power by being effective in delivering affordable housing

Ones wealth should not be defined by others being crucified, homeless or penniless

Asset price appreciation via suffocation of supply is a high risk game. The wheel always turns

I speak as a homeowner not an asset holder. My interests are best served by a sustainable affordable market that washes its own face

My job and Home are put at risk by government policies. Most other homeowners will be in a similar position. It's tough paying a mortgage, tougher paying taxes to fund price and rental appreciation. Use my taxes to increase supply not price. We and the broader economy all benefit when the property market is stable and affordable

Yeah every renter is going to agree with your views. You are assuming an awful lot. Like the assumption is I want prices to keep going up. I object to taking property off people and then subsidising somebody else so they can buy it cheaper. Lots of people don't want the government to take assets off people.

None of you can justify why something should be taken off somebody else so somebody else can get it cheaper.

It is very easy to say you are happy to have stuff taken off somebody else when it doesn't affect you. That is the ultimate "I'm alright Jack". Very easy to spend others' money. Telling landlords to reduce rent is very easy when it is not your money and you aren't subsidising the tenant you expect the landlord to do. The sense of entitlement to others' money and asset is absurd. Can I asses what you have and dish it out to other people?

Keep dreaming or actually create your own party and prove me wrong.

About 69% of adults in ireland are homeowners.

It is likely that a large proportion of that 69% vote in General Elections.

Not all of the 69% want to see prices continue to rise, but I'd say a lot of them do.

The young adults living with parents may be planning to emigrate and generally dont vote in high numbers anyway.

A large proprtion of the 300k renters are foreign born and are not eligible to vote; Our voting electorate no longer reflects accuratley on our population.

All in all, the homeowning voters have greatest numbers and they are voting for the status quo.

They won't vote for a single issue housing party when they dont belive in that single issue and have other concerns they wish to see addressed.

in 2022 31% of Irish households were renting. And also in 2022 41% of people aged 18-34 were living with their parents.

Presumably very large numbers of those paying rent would vote for such a party, along with large numbers of young people forced to live at home, and along with the parents of said young people who'd like them to be able to move out.

The Green party only got 4.7% in 2007, and 7.1% in 2020, and managed to have a huge influence on the governments, and governmental policies, that resulted from each election.

It would depend on any Housing Party being milquetoast enough on all other issues that they could attract voters from across the spectrum, but pending them doing so theres no reason to doubt they could find themselves as a powerful kingmaker on only approx 5% of the vote.

You think you made completely coherent points? You did certainly assume I was "I'm alright Jack" and wanted prices to continue to rise. You certainly are raving about political party magically appearing and getting voted in on one issue because you believe house prices and rent are peoples' main concern.

What are the policies that are so unpopular that you don't think the party could last? It really has to involve taking properties off somebody either by punitive taxes or punitive legislation. Unless you can explain some other way. Look at what happened when the went near pensions, what do you think will happen if they go after their assets?