Metrolink - Alternative Routes - See post one for restrictions.

We can see from here exactly where the quiet zones are (SW beyond Rathgar with the exception of Tallaght). This does not even include the leisure drivers (stadiums, seaside) that make up the points of interest for Dublin. And it's 2011 as well….the development of the South East has been even more pronounced since.

I'm firmly of the view though that the next line should be Grand Canal based, which would be an easier political sell imo. Utility for people all over Dublin and the southside more particularly.

The density map is from 2018.

I would imagine density numbers are far higher in the SW due to all the development since that map was put together.

The south East already has access to heavy rail (DART), Tram (Luas Green Line) and a QBC along the N11 doesn't it?

I’m on about metro 2.
Metrolink is a completely different project and should be extended to include the luas GL.

2011 Census

Which developments? The focus since has been the N11 corridor, existing Luas and DART development. The Dublin map of developments literally shows this, the SW is barren.

There’ll be far more utility for the city if UCD is connected to light / heavy rail.

Personally though I want an orbital line along the canal, this will provide utility right across the Southside for all.

Why? There is nothing in the SW but semi D houses and golf courses leading to mountains. Dundrum to Tallaght outside the Dargle is a desert of places. Beyond Rathgar frankly is that way tbh.

As pointed out to you regularly, the notion that any geography is automatically covered is nonsense. The vast majority of Blackrock is not covered by the DART, for example, yet this is a bias people have because they hear a station name. That will be the exact same with somewhere like a Rathfarnham. The difference is of course that Blackrock actually is somewhere people want to go, whether that is for the sea, for education (BFE and Smurfit School) and employment (major insurance centre in Ireland).

The issue time and time again from you is you don’t even accept a Luas because (as we all know), semi D land won’t give up their roads and gardens. You want expensive heavy tunnelled Metro connecting to places with poor density and nothing there that interests people. You come up with some imaginary routes to get there that includes Tallaght, as you know that’s the only area that justifies getting to and increasing capacity.

Truth is a far better way to do that (ie to justify the cost? would either be Ballymount or maybe Terenure. Until we get serious about density in that part of Dublin, we should in no way be spending billions tunnelling there.

I’ll take a Grand Canal like orbital line, which will be of use to most Dubliners including people living there. But I won’t take these “SW” demands which are spurious at best.

It has a Luas, will soon have Dart + and 2 QBC's as you can see below:

And if you compare the relative density of both the SE and SW, the South East is more populated, historically and when you look at the peripheries out towards Sandyford and Brides Glen.

Should there be another transport corridor SW? Yes, absolutely, but providing metro grade services down the Green Line costs in the 100s of millions, doing it south west will be north of 10bn.

Hi all, longtime lurker here on this part of the forum and really enjoy reading peoples input on these things, especially the well educated ones who know much more about these type of topics than I do.

I don't really get the logic being used to discuss future metros. Isn't one of the main reasons for building metros to unlock new lands for development along the line? But doesn't that go against a CBA, as the development doesn't exist yet (I'm thinking of places like City Edge and other industrial areas earmarked for major development)?

Also, doesn't the argument for not having a SW metro due to low density not apply to everywhere outside the city core, as most of it is low density also? The Dublin region is mostly just semi-d sprawl so could the same arguments not be made for any new metro that goes SW, NW or anywhere that's not towards the NE to SE regions of the city?🙂

But where is the proposed development in the area being discussed? What we see here are people coming up with routes that get to Tallaght (accepted bringing heavy rail out there would be worthwhile) and say a Ballymount with wild routes suggested in order to "cover" the area they really want. This is because they know that the area doesn't actually meet a threshold and come up with wild routes to justify it.

In terms of your point on future development - where is that coming from? The part I mention is essentially the foothills of the Dublin mountains. In fact when you look at the map even within the M50 there is green space galore. Yes Marley Park is brilliant, but the number of golf clubs (some with more than 18 holes) is crazy.

I'm not seeing any suggestions of developments of say the scale of Glass Bottle that is (partly) justifying the extension of the Red Line. I'm not seeing anything like a Seven Mills that supports DART+. There certainly is nothing on the scale of a Sandyford and a Cherrywood getting built. There isn't an urban centre like a Swords (not to mention the Airport) with no rail that supports Metrolink. City Edge and Tallaght are not in the geographic area people want this route to touch.

Comparing relative density in this argument is challenging as we have arbitrary routes we all propose. I would say generally if we compare the South Dublin County area to Dún Laoghaire Rathdown (both areas already have light and heavy rail of course but this is a general argument) that we see DLR with 36% more density. DLR has more educational and employment centres, along with general places of interest. You have Sandyford and Cherrywood continuing to expand to become urban centres.

What's more though, the county border of DLR is based on historical quirks of the overall Dublin / Wicklow variety. Bray and Greystones are essentially Dublin suburbs, and both are growing rapidly. If you look at the Luas, the old Harcourt Street line of course went to Bray. But now bringing the Luas Green Line back to Bray is challenging because further up the line it is seeing such substantial development that is swallowing capacity. But Bray and Greystones are growing gangbuster. Technically they (largely, a portion of Bray is in DLR) fall into Wicklow…but the demand there is DLR feeding into DCC related. Moreover the N11 and Rosslare line are key national routes that roll down to Wicklow proper and Wexford, which puts further pressure up the line.

The infrastructure on the face of it sounds great. A heavy rail DART and commuter rail line, a Luas line and the N11 / M11 with QBC integrated. The Luas line of course though can't go further south because of capacity reasons. The Rail line hugs the coast for much of the way, underlining my point that vast parts of these neighbourhoods that are supposedly covered by rail are not actually. The N11 / M11 corridor is a mess from the Glen of the Downs onwards. The QBC is decent…but everything is fed into the same squeeze zone 3km - 4km from the city centre. Rathfarnham village is only 1km extra distance than UCD is from the city centre, context of the size of these spaces and how the QBCs actually work is important.

There are zero national roads or transport nodes that feed through the SW area…as I said it gets to mountains. And I'm not seeing any plans to substantially change that.

M1, M2 etc. it's the same right around the GDA.

Perhaps we go out towards the N81 and touch Tallaght. But imo for the bang for our buck we need to go out there fairly directly. Perrystown, Kimmage, Harolds Cross….