Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

Some parts, the west, the Eastern areas didn't, they wanted autonomy, pure and simple, that's where it started. This has all been covered before. Simple, Finland doesn't have the historical significance that Ukraine has, nor does it have the population of Ethnic Russians that the whole of Eastern Ukraine has.

You talking about propaganda is ironic, you just believe what you want. Ukraine had the option of peace, that's well documented at this stage. And you're statement about Crimea, completely wrong, Crimeans voted under their own constitution,it wasn't just "some interest",.. You'll find that even up to 2016, BBC news night had many documentaries focused on all this, focused on the Azov and extremely right wing groups and what they were doin g to the people of the Donbass,. Are you saying the BBC were spinning Russian propaganda too?.

Funny, isn't it, how "autonomy" for unionists in Northern Ireland is awful, but "autonomy" in eastern Ukraine is just great.

Odd to say the least.

BTW, just because one is ethnic Russian does not mean one wants to live under Putin's impoverished, criminal regime.

Aside from the code cracking, they have passed no comment on the rest of my post?

And here's a link from a former resident of Donbass, maybe you know him?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1657421382794313731

Also you might want to read Igor Girkin's account of how he started the war in Donbass on Putin's orders with his little green men, Russian who brought war to Donbas admits it has turned into “a dump”worse than Ukraine or Russia. He shelled both ethnic Russians and Ukrainians to start the so called "rebellion", which Putin used as an excuse to send the Russian military in to "rescue" ethnic Russians.

What a tremendous idea, that'll really show them who the big dogs are…

The Irish government should have no gripes with the US over anything that's happening in Ukraine as it's none of our business. Ireland's economy is very reliant on US multinationals so boycotting the US administration would be an extremely short sighted and dangerous thing to do for our country.

Amazing that ?? The same Trump who sided with Netanyahu now sides with Putin. Both aggressors who invade and kill many innocents and the Irish should say nothing? Good God !!

My wife's family are from the Don bass, living in Estonia, I think I'll take their accounts of things.

Ukraine hasn't had the option of genuine peace. Previous to this Jan, Putin has never once offered a ceasefire or made an overture - it was all an act

The Crimea referendum was a fake or sham referendum. It was held in weeks, under Russian occupation, with no proper oversight. Russian leaks showed that only 30% to 50% of people actually voted and the vote was relatively close. The options on the ballot paper were twisted. The "official results" showed nearly 97% of people in favour. Ukrainian channels were shut down, only Russian state media operated with spread a pro-Russian message

Putin has also held similar "referendums" in occupied territory in Ukraine, all similar sham referendums used to "legitimise" the invasion for a domestic audience

"Ukrainian Nazi's" - The Azov brigade had some far right links which were exposed and well known about in the media. The Kremlin seized on and exaggerated that to project the "Ukrainian Nazi" propaganda.

(Also pretty rich considering e.g. Wagner whose captain, a skinhead, was literally covered in SS tattoo's, and also ignoring the Russian troops (and their commanders) who have been pictured with neo-Nazi tattoos and insignias)

It's grim that these classic Putin talking points are still doing the rounds with some people at this stage. They are so well known there's a Boards bingo card for them.

The point is that the referendum was held after break up of the USSR,

Incorrect, it was held while the USSR still existed, on 1 Dec 1991.

For context:

In March 1991 a referendum was held in 9 of the 15 Soviet republics on whether or not to preserve the USSR; in Ukraine 71.5% voted to preserve the Union (as did 78% across all USSR voting republics). This referendum was subsequently ignored by the different groups of wreckers determined to terminate the USSR. We all know their names & motivations.

The referendum you are referring to was held 9 months later in Dec 1991.

Edit: got date wrong

Assuming this isn't made up, why are they no longer in the Donbas? (I'd expect a bit of detail about the reason for moving from or detail of who is remaining in the Donbas if you're going to use this to press a point, I can see if it matches my experience from people who lived there).

I've my business in Ireland

So Russia invaded because Ukraine engaged with the EU?

As for them being a prospective EU member, they were a long ways from ever achieving that in all fairness. Pre invasion there was very little appetite to bring them into the EU.

Our governments job is first and foremost to look out for the interests of Irish citizens. Starting a pissing contest with the US is most certainly not in our interests right now.

Every US administration sides with Israel, this isn't a Trump thing. It's one of the more bizarre foreign policies they seem to follow regardless of whether it's a Republican or Democrat sitting in the White House.

I just don't understand our governments insistence on going all in on Ukraine. We have nothing to gain and quite a lot to lose by starting a row with the US over it.

I'm well aware of the Maidan revolution and the 10 years that led up to it. With one side being extremely pro Russian and the other having deep links to US political figures. For me, the trade agreement was merely a pretext for Russia to go in and take Crimea and was the culmination of over a decade of brewing conflict between the 2 countries.

Unfortunately for the everyday Ukrainian, the political figures on both sides don't really have their best interests at heart.

With all that said, I still don't agree with getting on the wrong side of the US over it. It's global politics that has been going on in that region since Ukraine gained freedom from the old USSR. We gain nothing by it.