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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It is older yes, but the spine of the team isn't really that bad. Probably centre is the real issue, particularly outside centre, but Ringrose is the youngest of the "old" bunch there. There is quite a few young props who are on the precipice of coming through with Clarkon, Boyle, TOT etc.

    Also France keep losing, so it is hardly surprising that they bring in younger players more.



  • Posts: 146 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We'll be fine at outside centre…

    Hugh Gavin (21) has the promise to be a great outside centre. He needs a couple of seasons there to round out his game but he's already a huge attacking threat against good defenders.

    James Hume (25) was looking like an international centre before the injury problems. If Ulster can get him fully fit he'll be right back in contention.

    Jude Postlethwaite (22) shows a lot of promise and seems comfortable in either centre role.

    Tom Farrell (31) has probably missed his chance but I'm sure he'd do a solid job at international level if we had an injury crisis.

    Jimmy O'Brien (28) always looked like he could develop as an outside centre if needed even if he's played most of his rugby in the back three.

    Hugh Cooney (21) has lots of time to develop too.

    That's without digging down into the academies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,957 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The player profile that produces backrow and centres seems to be one that we always have coming through in quality. Wingers and 2nd row are bit more scarce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 42,677 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Are you talking about starting 15? VDF, Aki and Keenan are certainties to be there. Furlong hasn't been playing and if he doesn't then Bealham will be there. Henshaw is ahead of Ringrose in my opinion because he can play both 12 and 13 at a high level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    @AbusesToilets Because they aren't as good as Ireland are, which has categorically been proven the last 2 times they've played.

    @Ersatz Not really, they are the second-best team in the tournament so have finished 2nd the last to years as expected.

    While good talent there, the vast majority still have ALOT to prove before they can be classified as "Scary"

    Keenan is a nailed-on starter, granted that doesnt necessarily mean he'll start at 15. Whatever the fans/media think about him, he's a coaches wet dream and cant see him ever being left out on form. If Kinghorn is seen as the better 15 I'm certain they'll stick Keenan in the 14 shirt or vice versa, Kinghorn has been playing on the wing for Toulouse a lot this season. The Right-wing position isn't the strongest position so could see a situation that both are put in.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Not sure I agree on 2nd row, granted the 2nd row is hard to predict for Ireland as many seem to be SR/6 hybrids these days.

    The wing I wonder could that also be an issue in regards to physical development. I just notice that for whatever reason a large portion of back three players we produce tend to have very bad injury records…compared to other positions at least and what we are seeing compared to the same players from other countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    Potentially 3 6N in a row (if we beat France) is a pretty long purple patch…the ironic part is it's clearly France who are going backwards…possibly the negative side of being early specializers that French/English players tend to be in rugby, i.e Better than average at a young age…but eventually it catches up with them and they end up being burnt out and past it by the time they reach their late 20s.

    No offence, but we've been hearing this for about 5 years now…nothing has happened…this was also said about the 2018/2019 generation and right now with most of those players between 25-27 i've yet to see what any of that is based on.

    I suspect its the same guff about the next generation also.

    Post edited by CalmaftertheGav on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 909 ✭✭✭johnh6767


    there are many from the 22 slam prospering already or have I got my year wrong?


    Sam Prendergast

    Gus McCarthy

    Brian Gleeson

    Diarmuid Mangan

    Fintan Gunne

    Hugh Gavin

    Hugh cooney

    Add in Henry McErlean who has been unlucky through injury I assume but clear talent, conor o tierneigh etc


    also France in retreat ???



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Has anyone got anything to back up 'Keenan is nailed on' apart from him being Irish? I'm not saying he won't be picked or that I wouldn't pick him but you need reasons to pick player A over player B and, for all the tens of tedious pages of 'reasoning' people come up with for choosing a particular fly half, when it comes to Keenan and Lowe it's just not even worth discussing, they have to start?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I was referring to France's 2018/2019 u20s. World Champions both times and were supposed to dominate World Rugby…it's been 5 years since we were told this and I'm still waiting…

    And yes, just look at France's results and performances…it's been a clear downward trend since 2022, a win over NZL last autumn has papered over ALOT of cracks that have been there since the RWC.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    He is nailed on; it's a pointless discussion.

    I have a great reason, he's the FB in the NH. Anyone who was in any doubt just watch the Scotland v Ireland game from a few weeks ago.

    Like I said in a previous post, if Kinghorn is selected it's almost certain that it's WITH Keenan rather than INSTEAD of Keenan as none of the RWC options are on the same level for me.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    OK, if you don't want to discuss it, don't discuss it. Not sure of the point of responding just to say you don't want to respond.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,717 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Two years ago, I’d have said Keenan was nailed on, now I’d rate him as “probable”. Kinghorn, M Smith could run him close.

    I don’t think anyone is in Lowe’s class, especially if Feyi Waboso is still out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing why people declare him to be 'nailed on'. Arguably, his prominence derives mainly from playing with the best team in the 6N. Also arguably, Kinghorn's prominence derives mainly from his playing with the best team in European club rugby. For me, Keenan's form at Leinster + Ireland > Kinghorn for Toulouse + Scotland. But if I could have both in the same 15, I'd be tempted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I realise it would never even occur to you but there's also some Ulster players doing pretty well. One was a development player with the senior squad a few weeks ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭All_in_Flynn


    Smith? At fullback? Whatever about Kinghorn being a possible challenger but what has Smith done to even be in the conversation at fullback?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    I don't know what there is to discuss, he's the best FB under the high ball, best at covering the backfield and overall, just the most reliable player.

    All I said is he's a nailed-on STARTER…not he's the nailed on 15! One way or the other he's getting in, its just a case of what jersey he wears and who partners him and Lowe in the back three.

    Like I said, the 14 jersey options aren't that great compared to Kinghorn and Keenan so the odds are both of them are starting at this point.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,370 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Whatever about the possibility of Marcus Smith being in contention for the 10 shirt , he is absolutely not in the running for the starting 15 jersey. If Furbank was fit, Smith wouldn't be starting at 15 for England.

    Right now , the shirt is between Keenan and Kinghorn and I would say that if Keenan has a good day next week vs. France that probably moves him ahead.

    Kinghorn was poor vs. England last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,717 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Kinghorn was muck against England, but Keenan was dropped/rotated against Wales…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭CalmaftertheGav


    He wasnt much better versus Ireland either. The British media love him though because he plays for Toulouse…



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,370 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I don't think Keenan was dropped tbf , but given that he didn't play against Wales he needs a good showing against France to re-establish his advantage over Kinghorn.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    POM, Healy and Murray annouce international retirement after 6N.

    Edit : POM and Healy retire altogether, Murray going abroad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭P.Walnuts


    Going by the video you'd expect them all to be involved against France



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    No offence taken. I'm skeptical myself because of the FFR-Top14 conflicts. There is no denying there are some special players from that U-20 group.

    Somebody went down a rabbit hole with my comment that Ireland are old in comparison to France.

    That's just an analytical truth!

    Just like why Ireland are going through a purple patch. Built on the foundations of Joe Schmidt's team and the non-conflicts between IRFU-Provinces.

    And again to be clear -Purple Patch- is 2023-2025 team. Almost perfect blend of experience and youth. Almost!

    It wont be like this forever though.

    It simply cant. Park, POM, Murray, Lowe, Furlong, Beahlham, Bundee, Beirne…

    Forget Le Crunch. Batáille Bearna Bhaoil!



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,833 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I objected to your claim that the team was predominantly built under Schmidt because it isn't! The literal spine of the team all broke through under Farrell.

    The Ireland U20s team won Grand Slams in 2022 and 2023. It takes a bit longer to break into a successful team than a flailing one. It's not a big deal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    The timing of that announcement feels very intentional, similar to CJ announcing his retirement before the England game a few years ago.

    All setting up for a massive emotional response against a pumped up French team.

    Game on!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    I didn't say predominately. I said Allot.

    I subsequently gave you another example.

    Heres another example. There was 14 in the 23 on Sat that was in Joe Schmidt's side.

    You dont have to respect what I post, but don't misquote me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Hold on! I just realised that you moderate this place. Goodbye



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Tommybojangles


    That made me a bit more emotional than I though it would. 3 All Timers. No obvious replasement for Murray or Healy imo and 2 six nations for someone to claim it with Casey and Boyle currently in the lead



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