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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭BoardsMember


    Yeah, that's why Farrell has been such a poor coach with awful results and playing style. Because he keeps picking inferior players from Leinster, as opposed to more talented players from unfamiliar other provinces? Did I get that right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    There isn't a hope Owen F gets picked, if he does its laughable tbh.

    Sam p keeps racking up games b4 May he'll prob go but I don't see him starting.

    If it was a tour v SA or NZ I think there would be alot more commentary about weather SP should go or not.

    M Smith for me, he was v good in the opening game in Dublin, if Borthwick played to his strengths he'd be better again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,807 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Bull.

    He'll take whatever Irish players will help him to win, no matter where they play Club rugby.

    And that will include Tadhg Beirne and Bundee Aki and most likely Mack Hansen.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Doesn't look likely he'll play again at 10 this 6N though. That can't help his case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    Yes I'd agree with that, 10 options for lions are not exactly flush though.

    It'll be interesting.

    Doris ,Sheehan, Porter, Lowe & JGP are all starters for me.

    There's alot of rugby to be played yet & a few injuries to come yet on law of averages



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Lowe v Van Der Merwe is a big call, assuming IFW is ruled out. Freeman has to be favourite on the other wing with Graham out of the picture for now.

    Curry and Doris I'd say will be in the back row. Morgan might complete that to give some balance and Wales a bit of representation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,715 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Could be interesting that Prendergast and M Smith will go head-to-head again before the squad is announced.

    And potentially the winner could meet Fin Smith in the semi-finals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    I think Lowe is a cert, VdM is weak densively

    Disappointed for Graham, has improved all round a lot in the last 2 seasons

    Doris Curry Morgan in back row



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,612 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    I wouldn't say Lowe is defensively strong either though, he is prone to defensive brain farts especially when under pressure.

    Id still have him over VDM.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I never said Farrell is a poor coach or has awful results. So nice one making up sh*t I never said.

    And yeah, Farrell has picked Leinster players over better players at other provinces.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,369 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Remove the games against England from his highlights reel and VdM looks bang average.

    Against other Top teams he is almost invisible and goes missing in defence.

    For such a big, quick guy he does next to nothing in most games.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    He's a winger, he scores and sets up tries. 32 so far (twice as many as Lowe), including against Ireland two weeks ago (and Australia, Wales, France, Argentina, Italy…) His defensive weakness is overstated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,957 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    He's muck. **** defender, barely ever comes off his wing as a playmaker, can't kick worth ****. Lowe is head and shoulders above him.

    Farrell has valued kicking his whole tenure, he's going to want his back 3 being a weapon in that regard. I'd give Osborne an outside shot at making the squad, due to his versatility. He's the perfect 23 option. Keenan is nailed on for the 15 jersey. He's peerless among the home nations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 396 ✭✭Tommysocks11


    Is it a worry to take and start porter when he is a liability at scrum time, concedes 2 or 3 per game and refs have a pre conceived notion that he bores in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 815 ✭✭✭MangleBadger




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    I always laugh when i see how many French players would get in to that squad. 7 or 8 easily in the XV.

    Thomas Ramos, Damian Penaud, Ringrose, Bundee, Bielle-Biarrey
    , Romain Ntamack, Antoine Dupont, Grégory Alldritt, Tom Curry, Chalres Ollivon, Emmanuel Meafou, Tadgh Beirne, Uini Atonio, Dan Sheehan, Cyrille Baille.

    Subs. Marchand or Mauvaka, Porter or Genge, Finlay or Furlong, Maro Itoje, Caelen Doris, Gibson-Park, Matthieu Jalibert, Hugo Keenan.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    You can compare players directly here, if stats are of interest to you. For the 2025 6N so far

    https://www.rugbypass.com/six-nations/stats/

    VDM has made 15 tackles with an 88% completion rate (1 dominant) compared to Lowe's 11 with a 52% completion rate (0 dominant). VDM makes more tackles per minute also.
    Lowe's rucking is better with 1 turnover to VDM's 0

    In terms of carries they're pretty much equal but VDM has beaten 14 defenders to Lowe's 6. VDM has 2 tries to Lowe's 1. Lowe beats VDM 4-1 in direct assists.

    Lowe is clearly the better player as regards kicking. 13 kicks from him so far and not a single kick from the Scot.

    Van der Merwe has been coming into the line, beating defenders and offloading (4, same as Lowe).

    in 2024 the two players had similar stats in defence. VFM 17 tackles, 61% success, Lowe 15 with 65% success.
    Similar story as 2025 in terms of carries. Roughly the same number and distance, with VDM beating 50% more defenders.

    43 kicks from Lowe to just 2 from VDM last year.

    Keenan v Kinghorn is a live debate for the 15 shirt. Kinghorn absolutely wipes the floor with Keenan in attacking stats (line breaks, carries, metres made, defenders beaten are all way higher), for a similar defense.

    Scotland carry the ball a lot more than Ireland (when you have a winger who can't kick it's kind of inevitable) so stats don't tell the full story but Keenan is absolutely not nailed on.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MOD: ok, this is not a Lions thread, while I'm not going to shut down everything tangentially related to it when it comes to Irish players, let's keep that in mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,957 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Wouldn't have Ramos anywhere near the team. Keenan is miles as a FB, and I feel Ramos is anonymous at 10 at international level.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Ramos is their kicker and 15. Otherwise I would agree, Keenan is the better 15.

    Also agree Ramos at 10 is not in the same league as Ntamack but will be interesting if the French go all French and start Ramos at 10 and Leo Barre at 15 against us.

    6-2 with Ntamack and Le Garrec.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,957 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Barre is class, think he could be 15 for France for a long time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    And Gailleton and Depoortère in the centres. Théo Attissogbé
    and Louis Bielle-Biarrey on the wings.
    Jegou and Auradou in the pack. Its scary how talented that vintage are.

    Nolann Le Garrec to help out if Dupont needs a rest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,957 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    It's actually ridiculous that they don't run away with the 6Ns every year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭ersatz


    It's extraordinary that they've won absolutely nothing with this team, shocking. In any other country the coaches would be toast.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Yet! Because our time is going to come to an end sooner rather than later. Look at the age profile of the squad. Allot of guys blooded by Joe Schmidt with Healy, Murray and O'Mahony from the stone age.

    Ireland is Dads army in comparison to the French. I think Ireland will win the Grand Slam but this is a purple patch.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Allot of guys blooded by Joe Schmidt

    It's about half the starting team and less of the bench

    Keenan, Nash/Hansen, Lowe, Prendergast/Crowley, Gibson-Park, Kelleher/Sheehan, Doris, McCarthy/Baird have all come in under Farrell. Basically the entire spine of the team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    Well they did win the Grand Slam in 2022!

    its the next generation that are truly special.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Right, one championship in 15 years. Thye've had the players to win most years during that period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    I know what it is.

    Bundee Aki

    Centre

    7 April 1990 (aged 34)

    62

    Ireland Connacht

    Rob Herring

    Hooker

    27 April 1990 (aged 34)

    42

    Ireland Ulster

    Finlay Bealham

    Prop

    9 October 1991 (aged 33)

    48

    Ireland Connacht

    Tadhg Beirne

    Lock

    8 January 1992 (aged 33)

    58

    Ireland Munster

    Iain Henderson

    Lock

    21 February 1992 (aged 33)

    85

    Ireland Ulster

    Jamison Gibson-Park

    Scrum-half

    23 February 1992 (aged 33)

    40

    Ireland Leinster

    James Lowe

    Wing

    8 July 1992 (aged 32)

    38

    Ireland Leinster

    Jack Conan

    Back row

    29 July 1992 (aged 32)

    48

    Ireland Leinster

    Tadhg Furlong

    Prop

    14 November 1992 (aged 32)

    78

    Ireland Leinster

    Josh van der Flier

    Back row

    25 April 1993 (aged 31)

    70

    Ireland Leinster

    Robbie Henshaw

    Centre

    12 June 1993 (aged 31)

    79

    Ireland Leinster

    Caolin Blade

    Scrum-half

    29 April 1994 (aged 30)

    3

    Ireland Connacht

    Garry Ringrose

    Centre

    26 January 1995 (aged 30)

    65

    Ireland Leinster

    Andrew Porter

    Prop

    16 January 1996 (aged 29)

    72

    Ireland Leinster

    James Ryan

    Count them (incl Healy, Murray and O'Mahony) and compare it to the French.

    Old by comparison.

    Which is the point I was making.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 749 ✭✭✭HanShotFirst


    but it is more than "absolutely nothing"

    which is why the coach is not "toast"



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