I never said Farrell is a poor coach or has awful results. So nice one making up sh*t I never said. And yeah, Farrell has picked Leinster players over better players at other provinces.
Remove the games against England from his highlights reel and VdM looks bang average.
Against other Top teams he is almost invisible and goes missing in defence.
For such a big, quick guy he does next to nothing in most games.
He's a winger, he scores and sets up tries. 32 so far (twice as many as Lowe), including against Ireland two weeks ago (and Australia, Wales, France, Argentina, Italy…) His defensive weakness is overstated.
He's muck. **** defender, barely ever comes off his wing as a playmaker, can't kick worth ****. Lowe is head and shoulders above him.
Farrell has valued kicking his whole tenure, he's going to want his back 3 being a weapon in that regard. I'd give Osborne an outside shot at making the squad, due to his versatility. He's the perfect 23 option. Keenan is nailed on for the 15 jersey. He's peerless among the home nations.
Is it a worry to take and start porter when he is a liability at scrum time, concedes 2 or 3 per game and refs have a pre conceived notion that he bores in
No. He has conceded 2 penalties in 3 games.
I always laugh when i see how many French players would get in to that squad. 7 or 8 easily in the XV.
Thomas Ramos, Damian Penaud, Ringrose, Bundee, Bielle-Biarrey , Romain Ntamack, Antoine Dupont, Grégory Alldritt, Tom Curry, Chalres Ollivon, Emmanuel Meafou, Tadgh Beirne, Uini Atonio, Dan Sheehan, Cyrille Baille.
Subs. Marchand or Mauvaka, Porter or Genge, Finlay or Furlong, Maro Itoje, Caelen Doris, Gibson-Park, Matthieu Jalibert, Hugo Keenan.
You can compare players directly here, if stats are of interest to you. For the 2025 6N so far
https://www.rugbypass.com/six-nations/stats/
VDM has made 15 tackles with an 88% completion rate (1 dominant) compared to Lowe's 11 with a 52% completion rate (0 dominant). VDM makes more tackles per minute also. Lowe's rucking is better with 1 turnover to VDM's 0 In terms of carries they're pretty much equal but VDM has beaten 14 defenders to Lowe's 6. VDM has 2 tries to Lowe's 1. Lowe beats VDM 4-1 in direct assists.
Lowe is clearly the better player as regards kicking. 13 kicks from him so far and not a single kick from the Scot.
Van der Merwe has been coming into the line, beating defenders and offloading (4, same as Lowe).
in 2024 the two players had similar stats in defence. VFM 17 tackles, 61% success, Lowe 15 with 65% success. Similar story as 2025 in terms of carries. Roughly the same number and distance, with VDM beating 50% more defenders.
43 kicks from Lowe to just 2 from VDM last year. Keenan v Kinghorn is a live debate for the 15 shirt. Kinghorn absolutely wipes the floor with Keenan in attacking stats (line breaks, carries, metres made, defenders beaten are all way higher), for a similar defense.
Scotland carry the ball a lot more than Ireland (when you have a winger who can't kick it's kind of inevitable) so stats don't tell the full story but Keenan is absolutely not nailed on.
MOD: ok, this is not a Lions thread, while I'm not going to shut down everything tangentially related to it when it comes to Irish players, let's keep that in mind.
Wouldn't have Ramos anywhere near the team. Keenan is miles as a FB, and I feel Ramos is anonymous at 10 at international level.
Ramos is their kicker and 15. Otherwise I would agree, Keenan is the better 15.
Also agree Ramos at 10 is not in the same league as Ntamack but will be interesting if the French go all French and start Ramos at 10 and Leo Barre at 15 against us.
6-2 with Ntamack and Le Garrec.
Barre is class, think he could be 15 for France for a long time.
And Gailleton and Depoortère in the centres. Théo Attissogbé and Louis Bielle-Biarrey on the wings. Jegou and Auradou in the pack. Its scary how talented that vintage are.
Nolann Le Garrec to help out if Dupont needs a rest.
It's actually ridiculous that they don't run away with the 6Ns every year.
It's extraordinary that they've won absolutely nothing with this team, shocking. In any other country the coaches would be toast.
Yet! Because our time is going to come to an end sooner rather than later. Look at the age profile of the squad. Allot of guys blooded by Joe Schmidt with Healy, Murray and O'Mahony from the stone age.
Ireland is Dads army in comparison to the French. I think Ireland will win the Grand Slam but this is a purple patch.
Allot of guys blooded by Joe Schmidt
It's about half the starting team and less of the bench
Keenan, Nash/Hansen, Lowe, Prendergast/Crowley, Gibson-Park, Kelleher/Sheehan, Doris, McCarthy/Baird have all come in under Farrell. Basically the entire spine of the team.
Well they did win the Grand Slam in 2022!
its the next generation that are truly special.
Right, one championship in 15 years. Thye've had the players to win most years during that period.
I know what it is.
Bundee Aki
Centre
7 April 1990 (aged 34)
62
Ireland Connacht
Rob Herring
Hooker
27 April 1990 (aged 34)
42
Ireland Ulster
Finlay Bealham
Prop
9 October 1991 (aged 33)
48
Tadhg Beirne
Lock
8 January 1992 (aged 33)
58
Ireland Munster
Iain Henderson
21 February 1992 (aged 33)
85
Jamison Gibson-Park
Scrum-half
23 February 1992 (aged 33)
40
Ireland Leinster
James Lowe
Wing
8 July 1992 (aged 32)
38
Jack Conan
Back row
29 July 1992 (aged 32)
Tadhg Furlong
14 November 1992 (aged 32)
78
Josh van der Flier
25 April 1993 (aged 31)
70
Robbie Henshaw
12 June 1993 (aged 31)
79
Caolin Blade
29 April 1994 (aged 30)
3
Garry Ringrose
26 January 1995 (aged 30)
65
Andrew Porter
16 January 1996 (aged 29)
72
James Ryan
Count them (incl Healy, Murray and O'Mahony) and compare it to the French.
Old by comparison.
Which is the point I was making.
but it is more than "absolutely nothing"
which is why the coach is not "toast"
It is older yes, but the spine of the team isn't really that bad. Probably centre is the real issue, particularly outside centre, but Ringrose is the youngest of the "old" bunch there. There is quite a few young props who are on the precipice of coming through with Clarkon, Boyle, TOT etc.
Also France keep losing, so it is hardly surprising that they bring in younger players more.
We'll be fine at outside centre…
Hugh Gavin (21) has the promise to be a great outside centre. He needs a couple of seasons there to round out his game but he's already a huge attacking threat against good defenders.
James Hume (25) was looking like an international centre before the injury problems. If Ulster can get him fully fit he'll be right back in contention.
Jude Postlethwaite (22) shows a lot of promise and seems comfortable in either centre role.
Tom Farrell (31) has probably missed his chance but I'm sure he'd do a solid job at international level if we had an injury crisis.
Jimmy O'Brien (28) always looked like he could develop as an outside centre if needed even if he's played most of his rugby in the back three.
Hugh Cooney (21) has lots of time to develop too.
That's without digging down into the academies.
The player profile that produces backrow and centres seems to be one that we always have coming through in quality. Wingers and 2nd row are bit more scarce
Are you talking about starting 15? VDF, Aki and Keenan are certainties to be there. Furlong hasn't been playing and if he doesn't then Bealham will be there. Henshaw is ahead of Ringrose in my opinion because he can play both 12 and 13 at a high level.
@AbusesToilets Because they aren't as good as Ireland are, which has categorically been proven the last 2 times they've played.
@Ersatz Not really, they are the second-best team in the tournament so have finished 2nd the last to years as expected.
While good talent there, the vast majority still have ALOT to prove before they can be classified as "Scary"
Keenan is a nailed-on starter, granted that doesnt necessarily mean he'll start at 15. Whatever the fans/media think about him, he's a coaches wet dream and cant see him ever being left out on form. If Kinghorn is seen as the better 15 I'm certain they'll stick Keenan in the 14 shirt or vice versa, Kinghorn has been playing on the wing for Toulouse a lot this season. The Right-wing position isn't the strongest position so could see a situation that both are put in.
Not sure I agree on 2nd row, granted the 2nd row is hard to predict for Ireland as many seem to be SR/6 hybrids these days.
The wing I wonder could that also be an issue in regards to physical development. I just notice that for whatever reason a large portion of back three players we produce tend to have very bad injury records…compared to other positions at least and what we are seeing compared to the same players from other countries.
Potentially 3 6N in a row (if we beat France) is a pretty long purple patch…the ironic part is it's clearly France who are going backwards…possibly the negative side of being early specializers that French/English players tend to be in rugby, i.e Better than average at a young age…but eventually it catches up with them and they end up being burnt out and past it by the time they reach their late 20s.
No offence, but we've been hearing this for about 5 years now…nothing has happened…this was also said about the 2018/2019 generation and right now with most of those players between 25-27 i've yet to see what any of that is based on.
I suspect its the same guff about the next generation also.
there are many from the 22 slam prospering already or have I got my year wrong?
Sam Prendergast
Gus McCarthy
Brian Gleeson
Diarmuid Mangan
Fintan Gunne
Hugh Gavin
Hugh cooney
Add in Henry McErlean who has been unlucky through injury I assume but clear talent, conor o tierneigh etc
also France in retreat ???
Has anyone got anything to back up 'Keenan is nailed on' apart from him being Irish? I'm not saying he won't be picked or that I wouldn't pick him but you need reasons to pick player A over player B and, for all the tens of tedious pages of 'reasoning' people come up with for choosing a particular fly half, when it comes to Keenan and Lowe it's just not even worth discussing, they have to start?
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