Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

You missed a critical part of his post: the quotes around the word "single".

I'm not suggesting it's true of all social welfare tenants but there are a significant number of families where (usually) the mother has a council tenancy, claims full benefits and the father who lives with them uses his parents address for all official correspondence while working or claims jobseekers as an individual (i.e. the full €244 a week instead of the dependent rate of €162).

Yes, the councils send out rent assessment forms on an annual basis to try and determine who's actually living in the properties but they don't have anywhere near the resources to verify them with house-by-house checks.

Yeah but you need to look at what the average house price was, the average take home wage along with the average cost of the day to day bills was back then and compare to now. People have less disposable cash now in their 20s/early 30s than I did when I was 20 that was back in the late 90s early 00. This is forcing young people to live at home longer and/or to emigrate to a country where they can rent and live without the government fleecing their wage packet to pay for others who get things like housing handed to them for nothing. Our system is very unfair with regards to how much we get taxed and how low a rate our tax bands particular the higher tax bands kick in - Not to mention its not like they are spending it on public services or infrastructure as Ireland as this is way below where we should be when you factor in what the bog standard worker pays into the system.

I think we are grossly exaggerating the situation for those in their 20s. It is actually those who came of age between say 2004 to 2014 that have been most screwed over.

This is gibberish. The State intervened with Rent Pressure Zones. Central Bank rules (who impact more than most on house buying) have the most impact on house prices outside of supply / macro demand factors. The CBI for years cheered in their briefing documents that they kept a lid on house prices when recovery was underway, juxtaposing us with international peers in terms of borrowing ability.

I hate this sort of conspiratorial thinking. I do not think the government want a collapse in prices (and the reasons for that should be obvious, although I note lots would want it) but their key goal is to get more home ownership. That narrows the disaffected vote considerably.

I am not sure you are comparing like with like. The houses nowadays are completed to a much higher standard (as a min) than they were when we purchased our homes. My first home did not have weather glaze windows, did not have a kitchen, did not have insulation, did not have central heating. Could you imagine suggesting this to people now? Remember everything that has to be paid for in the price of a new property.

I never could afford holidays growing up, could not afford a car etc. Life is about choices very few people are in a position to have enough money to do what they want.

if you want to purchase a property you have to make sacrifices. I remember when I was saving for a deposit I had to cut back on a lot to save my deposit. I remember friends of mine having similar sacrifices of no holiday, going out maybe once a week and a treat was a takeaway.

Before you say things are different now both of my nieces purchased properties with their partners in the last 5 yrs and are not in very high paying jobs but made choices to save in order to purchase their properties. They lived at home until they could afford to purchase properties up to their mid 20's so it can be done, people just need to make choices.

Thats a nice little rant but you didn't answer my question at all. You claimed "the benefit system gives you a better standard of living than working/bettering yourself does"

So, again, how exactly do you think your quality of life would be better on an income of 244euro a week or worse than it is now?

Because if thats the case it would suggest to me either you're earning almost nothing from your degree, masters and professional qualifications… or you were incorrect in your claim.

It's not like-for-like, this is true. However, comparisons with the past never are. Obviously houses today are of a higher quality, but there nothing like that in the 80s, but that wasn't available in the 80s, so we have to take the average house then as an example to compare with what we have today.

Please, don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the 80s was better than today; I'm merely pointing out that it was more possible to establish oneself in life and get on with things like a family.

Regarding your nieces, I'm happy that they did this, and I myself managed to buy a house on a single income, so it's doable for some people. However, this doesn't change the fact that housing is becoming less affordable for younger generations.

People on JSA/JSB do not get any payments towards electricity or fuel.

GP Visit card is available to many, many working families as housing, house insurance, childcare and commute costs count towards the calculation. Couple with three kids have a level of €778/week after allowable costs to qualify.

Well you can call it what you want 75% of all 25 -30 year olds are living at home with their parents. Another % have left for pastures new so the figure being hit in this age bracket is scandalously high and not an exaggeration. At 25 most people will historically be finished college and would be working in a decent job or they would of done an apprenticeship or been in say a bank the public sector for 6/7/8 years now and historically that was the age where the chicks leave the nest. So there is no exaggeration at all about it. There is also things like the uptick in divorce where people were secure as a couple financially and a breakup means your means are halved as in what you have at your disposal and half a house if you were lucky to buy one with your partner and bills to pay and it gets even more expensive when kids are involved typically one or both in this couple in this scenario will have no choice but to move back home with their parent for a stint to try and save and get back on the property ladder as a single person or wait to partner up again which is going to take time. Having said that typically the parent who takes the kids could give up work and apply for a house so the state is stepping as the baby daddy

According to our welfare site they can get fuel allowance

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social-welfare/unemployed-people/jobseekers-allowance/

I didnt say they would live like a king, I said they were better off than an average salaried single earner; and they are.

Someone earning 45k and paying the top rate of income tax would take home 3.1k at best, if they made no pension contributions at all.

Once they have paid the 2.5k rent, they are left with 600 euro to live off for the month; thats less than the 800+ euro the JSA tenant will have to spend, after they have paid their rent.

I agree that we need to build more housing and I dont begrudge the social tenant being housed on the dole at all; but I do feel sorry for the single worker on an average salary, as I said in my original post.

Ireland also has a disproportionate disability rate based on our demographics. That’s the hidden long term unemployed, those who find ways to exit the labour market.

Agreed it is likely no more than a few % at most. Most people are not lazy.

It is a thing though and there is no harm in it being pushed from time to time.

If you get housed for free in social house. It's worth over a million euro, after tax. That's the reality... that would apply to many of the luxury apartments, they are currently giving out...

You're far better off here, living off welfare here and earning cash. Unless you're a high earners and the vast majority aren't and won't be...

If it were me, screwed by this **** show w and family didn't have land to let me build a garden room. I'd buy a tiny bit of agricultural land and house myself or buy a total ruin of a house for a pittance and sort the issue that way

Presume it's the interest on most people's mortgages being included.