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Senior ministers concerned about effects of Occupied Territories Bill.

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Comments

  • #542
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123063656#Comment_123063656

    Excuse the language, I won't even try to give an excuse.

    As for the the situation - doesn't matter the reasons, or whether it is simple or not. The reasons are irrelevant - it is the act of crossing the line into genocide that defines you, and that is what puts it as another dark stain on the history of mankind.

    Every genocidal regime in history had their reasons and believed them, and somehow warped otherwise normal people into performing acts of incomprehensible cruelty, and to accept the mass killing of innocent men women and kids as justified.

    The Germans (and people further afield) didn't suddenly become evil during the 1940s, the populace became radicalised by Nazi ideology, and right now Israel have become a radicalised society, and their sycophants around the world are believing it and buying it.

    It's up to every sane country to point this out and pressurise them to stop, those backing them to the hilt are complicit.



  • #543
    Joe1919
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Joe1919


    Just a question. Lets say Trump or USA occupies panama or some other country. Could we find ourselves in some type of position that we could not trade or provide services to US companies in that country due to the OTB if passed.?



  • #544
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,060 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123067098#Comment_123067098

    I didn't accuse you at all as I had seen your posts on the Immigration thread.

    But while you are there you never answered my post to you on the amount of children murdered in Gaza in the last 14 months. You said that children die in wars yet when I told you and posted a link that more children had died in Gaza in this war than in all the global wars put together in the last 4 years you failed to reply or answer the post in any way. Why so?



  • #545
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,060 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Anyway back on track. I feel that BDS is the way to go and I have mentioned this to all my friends and they will do likewise. I really hope this Bill is pushed through and that nobody will buy anything grown or manufactured in any Israeli illegal settlements or stolen lands. gain - fair play to our Government.



  • #546
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,240 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068345#Comment_123068345

    99.9 percent people here won’t give two fiddlers to where their goods and services come from. This bill reflects the views of a tiny minority



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  • #547
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,060 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068375#Comment_123068375

    Wrong on both counts ……. yet again.



  • #548
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,240 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068385#Comment_123068385

    Not everyone is like you, desperate to convey a real interest and concern to this never ending hateful conflict.. really, nobody here sincerely cares.



  • #549
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068297#Comment_123068297

    It could be applied to illegal occupations anywhere in the world. It does not mention Israel or Gaza.



  • #550
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,060 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068404#Comment_123068404

    I care and many many others too.



  • #551
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,981 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068404#Comment_123068404

    Why are you posting about it here constantly then? Do you envy those with genuine empathy?

    Post edited by Cluedo Monopoly on

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • #552
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,691 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123068404#Comment_123068404

    Then why is there such support for the OTB? Why are these threads so active?



  • #553
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,240 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069554#Comment_123069554

    Well, I'd say the clear majority people on this thread (going by posts/thanked posts) are not for the OTB. Just look back at the posts that are not in favor and who think it's virtue-signalling…..they have plenty pleny support/thanks

    Active thread doesn't mean widespread support, or majority support…

    I haven't encountered a single person who said to me "isn't this OTB bill great." Most don't even know about it, and more don't care. They're just getting on with life here in Ireland, 1000s a miles away



  • #554
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,691 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069558#Comment_123069558

    You'd be wrong. And IRL it's supported by every Irish party, afaik.



  • #555
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,240 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069563#Comment_123069563

    I am not wrong….read the posts here…..vast majority thanked posts are for posts that are not supporting the bill. You mentioned why is the thread so active if there is no support. As if an active thread means support. It doesn't.



  • #556
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,691 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069566#Comment_123069566

    The fact is there is popular support for the bill. As for the rest of ye, Yeats said it best -

    "What need you, being come to sense,
    But fumble in a greasy till
    And add the halfpence to the pence
    And prayer to shivering prayer, until
    You have dried the marrow from the bone;
    For men were born to pray and save:
    Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
    It’s with O’Leary in the grave. "



  • #557
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,240 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069576#Comment_123069576

    Popular support where? The TDs, who are afraid of their lives to be honest about it? In fear they'd be labeled as in support of murder and genocide?

    Other than this fake/contrived support, the vast majority of people couldn't care less.



  • #558
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,682 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123067465#Comment_123067465

    I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but effectively are you saying is that because a previous genocidal elimination of Jews from the area known as Israel/Palestine was so successful in either killing them all off or displacing them, that their far-flung descendants have no right of return?



  • #559
    xhomelezz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,619 ✭✭✭xhomelezz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069554#Comment_123069554

    What threads are so active?

    And where is such of support for OTB?.

    There's at the best 10 posters posting daily on the "threads". That includes few who likes to flood the thread on daily basis with the usual what about the all the deaths..., not so sure how many accounts are hold by one person. So I can't see so much of support displayed..

    https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

    Hit the switch to keep the lights on.



  • #560
    Miniegg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069901#Comment_123069901

    How far flung are the descendants?



  • #561
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,138 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Looks like the OTB is going to effectively be put on the long finger and replaced by a "new" bill according to the incoming Taoiseach.

    https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1880968741120528521


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  • #562
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,462 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069554#Comment_123069554

    Do you think most Irish people are waking up every morning thinking about the OTB?

    If we take the shinners and the people who like wearing Yasser Arafat scarves out of the equation I think you will see that most of the population have more pressing concerns rather than a war on the other side of the world.

    A war started by Hamas FYI.



  • #563
    walshb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 59,240 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123072877#Comment_123072877

    as I thought.. nobody genuinely cares about it. It’s just cementing its status as virtue-signalling. TDs just afraid they’ll be slated if seen not to care.

    Post edited by walshb on


  • #564
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,457 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123072877#Comment_123072877

    In other words it's being sh!t canned. Delighted.

    Common sense prevails.



  • #565
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,198 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074054#Comment_123074054

    Unfortunately the damage to Ireland's international reputation won't be regained as easily though.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #566
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,266 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074129#Comment_123074129

    There is no material damage to Ireland's reputation.

    It was a perfectly reasonable position to have taken on this conflict, as we didn't do it alone.

    And if its Washington you're concerned about, the only lobby more powerful that the Jewish, remains the Irish.

    Trump has already nominated his boss for the Federal Trade Commission. She's from f**king Dalkey.

    Not to mention his incoming cabinet, Transport Secretary Elect Scott Duffy, Education Secretary Elect Linda McMahon, Veteran Affairs Sec Elect Douglas Collins, Borders boss Tom Homan, and Health Secretary Elect Robert F. Kennedy.



  • #567
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,198 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074175#Comment_123074175

    Trump has already nominated his boss for the Federal Trade Commission. She's from f**king Dalkey.

    I think not. AFAIAA, it's to be Andrew Ferguson who is a Mennonite from Virginia.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/10/trump-names-andrew-ferguson-as-head-of-federal-trade-commission-to-replace-lina-khan.html

    I take it you mean Gail Slater, who is to be assistant attorney for the Antitrust division. But in any case the idea that every pick is based on the power of their respective lobbies rather than on their individual CVs is pretty bonkers, TBF. And even if that were the case, in practice there are more nominees of various other nationalities and origins than Irish in any case. A number of Latinos for example.

    Unless you mean that she would allow Irish firms walk over US anti trust regulations just by dint of being Irish? That would be seriously weird.

    As for the others, I only looked up the first couple: Scott Duffy: no mention of him having any interest in his possible Irish roots, and Linda McMahon is actually Welsh, not Irish. Clearly you've just picked all those with seemingly Irish names and you've projected onto them that they give one damn about being Irish. The reality is that the Joe Biden style Irish American is a dying breed.

    https://scottduffy.com/my-story/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_McMahon

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #568
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,682 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123072877#Comment_123072877

    It will never see the light of day, too many legal issues will crop up. People will forget about it.



  • #569
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,954 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123074705#Comment_123074705

    There's a commitment in the Programme for Government to "progress legislation prohibiting goods from Occupied Palestinian Territories". No timescale.

    It's possible that, with the Gaza ceasefire, public interest in/support for legislating about this will abate somewhat. This isn't something I think the government will formally abandon, but they could probably soft-pedal it. A lot.

    On the other hand, they've already seriously pissed off Israel's supporters on the right — not just with this measure, but with things like the co-ordinated recognition of Palestine and their language on this topic generally. It's not likely that these feelings of antipathy towards Ireland will be replaced by a warm frank love purely becuase the OTB, or a replacement for it, is quietly allowed to languish. But those of the opposing view will be very upset if the commitment to legislate on this topic is not followed up. The government could end up with the worst of both worlds, having pissed off first one side, and then the other.

    A cannier strategy might be for the government to emphasise the merits of a multilateral approach. The volume of trade actually affected by an Irish-only measure would be utterly tiny. Whereas if the government forms common cause with other governments (as it did on Palestinian recognition) it might be able to act more effectively, e.g. in pressing to have concerns about the illegality of the occupation reflected in EU trade policy. And if that were to be successful it would be very hard for the Israelis to single out Ireland for blame.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


  • #570
    blanch152
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,682 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123075351#Comment_123075351

    Well, yes, that would be the smart way to do it.

    As I have pointed out previously, there are problems with the OTB because trade is an EU competence. You could see a Minister announce in about 18 months time that after serious legal consideration, it is clear Ireland cannot act unilaterally on trade but we are going to push for an EU solution. That takes it off the table.



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  • #571
    deirdremf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123069901#Comment_123069901

    Which genocide was that? Do you have documentary proof for it?

    Or maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of Jews in the area changed religion, some might have become Christian, others might have become Muslims.

    After all, this is what happened all over the Middle East, North Africa, the rest of the Roman Empire, the Persian Empire and beyond. Or you arguing for Jewish exceptionalism again?



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