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LUAS Network + Future Expansion

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Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    It would be better to discuss that in the dedicated DU thread (the dead part that is).

    I was thinking about it a bit more yesterday, even if DU was built for arguments sake, I'd still think you would need more East to West Luas lines regardless.

    Sure, DU would remove some of the demand trying to get on Luas at Heuston Station. However I wouldn't see most people coming on the Red line South of Heuston bothering to swap to DART there (too close to the city already, needing to transfer, etc.).

    If the Luas Vision 2050 happens, there is no way the "Abbey St" section of the red line could handle it, even if DU was there. Think about it:

    1. We extend all the Southern Red Line stations to 55m, thus increasing demand heading to the city on it.
    2. We build a new extension to Clondalkin feeding into the Red line from the south.
    3. We extend the red line to Poolbeg.
    4. We build a new Blanchardstown line feeing directly into the Abbey Street section of the Red line!
    5. We build a new Clongriffin line feeding directly into the Abbey Street section of the Red line!

    Yikes, think about it, there is no way the existing red line could handle all that, even if DU existed to take some of the pressure off. Just the number of extra trams trying to use it would make it impossible IMO.

    So from my perspective on this DU isn't really part of this, it is it's own thing and needs to prove itself separately. Either way if we are to do the Luas Vision 2050 or some form of that, extra East West lines will need to happen regardless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    question, why at the red cow for examples, cant they put a roof over the luas stops and bus stops, so people could could avoid getting soaked and have more seating?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,101 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Probably to avoid it becoming a useful place for homeless people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I assumed as much, just dont put in seating that case, merely a roof…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭Thunder87


    The same question could be asked across most our public transport infrastructure, most stations provide the absolute bare minimum in shelter or comfort and half our bus stops are still just a pole. I was going to say you'd think we live in a sunny country with the way our infrastructure is designed but then thinking about it most sunny countries I've visited still provide shelter from the sun.

    For me it's 100% a consideration when deciding whether to use public transport vs driving somewhere, if its a case of a comfortable drive vs standing in unpleasant weather for 10-15 minutes waiting for a bus/train I'll likely drive



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Most people will drive anyway. And with almost 2.5 million car owners in fhe state and rising, that number will only increase.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,101 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    If it’s a sunny country, you’ll need protection from the sun.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Most of the Luas stops do have a shelter but not all. Parnell Street and Abbey street as an example. Now not a very big shelter I admit, probably should be a lot longer, but they do have them.

    I don’t know why they all don’t have them, O’Connell Street and a few others might be to reduce the visual impact on the GPO or other historic buildings. No idea why Red Cow doesn’t have them.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Actually hold on the Red Cow Luas stop does have shelters too! Again not very big ones, but definitely there.

    The more I look, the more I see that the majority of stops have shelters. Just the OCS, Trinity and Dawson Street stops stand out as not having them. I suspect that is down to the visible aspect on historic buildings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    To be fair, the new bus interchange there will be getting a canopy at least (Yes, the current "new" interchange is a temporary one that was put in place ahead of a full rebuild)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27 DrivingSouth


    This is emblematic of the historic attitude to public transport in this country. I had great hopes for the bus interchange stops as part of bus connects based on what I've seen in other places, but they are earmarked to be just as small and **** as you might expect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 285 ✭✭PlatformNine


    TII has released a new version of their Active Projects List, and while it is mostly nothing new, it did note that they expect to sign the contract for the new Luas fleet this year! I was hoping we would see a contract signed or order placed this year, but I think this is the first we have seen a more solid date given by TII? I am guessing it will be more Alstom Citadis units, but I am still excited to see what the future of the fleet will look like.

    https://www.tii.ie/en/public-transport/projects-and-improvements/p-t-active-projects-list/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭scrabtom


    Is that car park in Carrickmines really forecast to cost 500 million to 1 billion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61 ✭✭Taisteal Éireann


    Another copy and paste job. The benefits of Luas Bray include "Facilitate Poolbeg SDZ and Dublin Port Masterplan".

    To add to that, up to €1 billion for a car park in Carrickmines is scandalous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,557 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    that carrickmines car park , is surely someone on the wind up?! a 350 space i.e. drop in the ocean , car park for 500,000,000 to a billion? It has to be a mistake…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Of course it’s a mistake. This is clearly a cut-and-paste error, where this page was simply copied from the previous one and edited with the new information, but the cost field wasn’t updated. There are several other such errors in the document.

    I expect to see the “Irish” Daily Mail run a story about this “billion euro carpark scandal” in a week or so…



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    When I just opened the document, the Carrickmines car park is listed as €35 million so looks like they fixed it. Very sloppy though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭Brightlights66


    I live outside of Ireland, but visit very often, and every time I come into Dublin city centre it strikes me how relatively small the work would be to develop a rail station at Whitworth Place in Drumcondra, on the Midland Line.

    It wouldn't seem to be difficult: there is comfortably space (both width and length) on the canal side, for a platform, and on the other side it should also be doable to build a platform, with perhaps just some removal and replanting of trees and some earthwork. From my cursory glance each time on the aircoach, it looks like it might be possible to build such a station. (I haven't, unfortunately, been able to spend much time in that area of Dublin in recent years).

    I post this because there is a proposal to build a LUAS to Balgriffin in the years to 2040, via Drumconndra.

    It seems to me that development of such a station at Drumcondra, on the Midland Line, would open up lots of possibilities, both for the Midland Line passengers and for the residents of that area.

    I make no secret that, for a number of reasons, I think the metrolink should be built through Drumcondra, but failing that there is every reason to do what can be done to ensure that the Balgriffin LUAS and Dublin's rail services have the best connectivity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    That would be barely 170 m from the existing Drumcondra station, on the other line that goes between Glasnevin and Connolly stations.

    There is definitely room for a new station on the old Midland line along the canal, but I would prefer one of two locations further east:

    image.png



    A, at Jones Road, beside the Croke Park Hotel, or B, west of Clarke’s Bridge. Both options would require CPO of some lands owned by GAA, but in return it would allow for a rail connection to Croke Park Stadium. Option B is better in this respect as it could open into the main Croke Park coach park and turnstile area on match-days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭Brightlights66


    Yes, that's right. Barely 170 metres from the existing Drumcondra station.

    It's not easy to see the full extent of the proposed Balgriffin LUAS, but it does appear to be planned to go via the City and Drumcondra, not Jones' Road. A station at Whitworth place would thus give passengers on that LUAS line access to all the local rail servicess, and vice versa.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I think you would struggle to fit a train station into any of those three locations:

    • Whitworth place - Looks like you'd have to close the road and take significant amount of backgardens.
    • Croke Park Hotel - It feels like you'd have to take a chunk of the Croke Park Hotel land and maybe even a bit of the hotel or at least very close to it.
    • East of Croke Park, the tracks their are on quiet a curve, I don't think you'd be allowed build a station on such a curve these days.

    And a problem all three face is the canal side. I believe the canals are owned by Waterways Ireland and I believe they are very protective about the canals and you would likely face opposition from them and environmental concerns, etc.

    And yes I know how ironic all that is, what with the canals only existing because they were created as a mode of transport!

    As an aside, in terms of match day crowds, the Phibsborough station being 1.5km from Croke Park would actually be considered relatively reasonable distance from the station. Best practice as changed from placing stations right next to a stadium, to instead putting them 1km or more to help with crowd control and safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭Brightlights66


    Whitworth Place itself is about 100 metres long. There is then, it appears, a garage, and then some scrubland between the back gardens on Drumcondra Road and the railway track.

    Creating a railway station there would not seem to present much of a problem.

    On the canal side there is clearly enough room, or could be. (I know nothing about the ownership of the land between the rail line and the canal at that location). It certainly looks like the normally required 3 metres, and if not it could be made to be. Given the very low throughput of boats in that section of the Royal Canal - if indeed there is any throughput - objections from Waterways Ireland can surely be easily countered.

    On the Whitworth Place side, you would effectively relocate the wall to the other side of the trees, create a platform and probably replant the trees a bit lower down. It might be necessary to have a slightly narrower platform at the sea end, just as there is in, say, Sandymount, where the platform is in parts just 1 metre (well below the statutory norm), but compulsory purchase of anything would assuredly not seem inevitable in such a plan.

    I can imagine there might be temporary road closures during construction. But, long term, Whitworth Place could go on as the lovely street that it currently is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 77 ✭✭Brightlights66


    It shouldn't be terribly complicated.

    The Balgriffin LUAS, via Drumcondra, is due to come on stream in 2040, and we're now only in 2025.

    The planners thus have several years - about 14 and half years, as of now - to figure out how to maximise interchange opportunities for passengers on the Balgriffin LUAS and the passengers on lines which might wish to use it.



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