Would GAA (football) solve a lot of its problem if it had a single, proper championship?

The way I see it anyway football in Ireland is 10 - 12 counties whatever future set up a championship has it should set to get to those 10-12 as the main championship. Football is in a much stronger state than Hurling, where there is a massive gap between the top teams, no depth in the game.

Yet football still does not manage to set up an interesting competition that is fit for purpose. Because their hands are tied by GAA "democracy" on the one hand, and "tradition" on the other.

That's all well and good but it still doesn't answer how seeding/ a two-tier Leinster Championship will prevent it from continuing its rapid decline from the shambles it has already become. Even if reforms somehow were to work, it wouldn't be at anywhere near the timeframe necessary- interest and participation in Leinster has already cratered. We need radical reform, not tinkering around the edges.

A lot of sports worldwide have regional representation. The GAA are no different through provincial representation.

The only county of place in the 2024 All Ireland series was Clare. Clare finished below Down in Division 3. Clare only had to beat Tipperary or Waterford, both from Division 4, to make the Munster final. Clare beat Waterford. Down were consigned to the Tailteann.

I personally would suggest seeding provincial draws on league placing. Another option is that provincial winners only qualify through the provinces. All provinces regardless of seeding can only produce one winner.

I think you’re missing a pretty massive con: the other counties are no longer competing for the Leinster championship, they are competing for the Leinster - Dublin championship.

As a Kildare fan I wouldn’t take my hands out of my pockets if we won it. Meaningless.

you’re not winning Leinster, Dublin is in Leinster. If you win in their absence you can’t call yourself a Leinster champion. You’re a Leinster minus Dublin Champion. Therefore it’s meaningless.

I think you can grasped my point, but didn’t grasp its significance.

Yes putting Dublin in Ulster is 100% a mad idea , Ulster is already competitive enough

Kerry have dominated Munster for over 100 years , remove Kerry from Munster and Munster becomes competitive again

Put Kerry in Leinster , that would make Leinster competitive , put Kildare and Wexford into Munster

Advantages would be Kerry are playing in a more competitive championship , unlikely to win 85 titles in Leinster

Cons Kerry supporters would not be in favour of this as they are so used to total domination of there province

Kerry supporters hate travelling except for All Ireland finals , not surprising as hammering Waterford Limerick Clare etc by 25+ points is not very attractive , however taking on Dublin in Leinster would surely get them traveling in greater numbers.

I was about to post similar meself. Saying Dublin more dominant than Kerry at a provincial level, is just recency bias. The Dubs only really dominated Leinster for the last 15 years. The time before that was the 70’s. Kerry have dominated Munster virtually since the foundation of the GAA.
And it took the odd Covid AI for Tipp to win Munster. Where Aussie Rules lads stayed at home in Ireland. And the fact the Clare Munster win is STILL spoken about over 30 years ago speaks volumes. Then you have the wildly inconsistent cork team the arse fell out of Cork football along time ago. Munster is a hurling province, with one of the favourites for Sam each decade having it handy. Even that great Kerry 70s/80’s team only had to play two real games to win Sam.

As for the poster who said Dublin should move to Ulster. Personally I wouldn’t mind it as Ulster teams are one dimensional and predictable. The new rules won’t suit them. Even a weakened Dublin side as is would find them to have not much variety. The problem with Dublin moving to Ulster-

1. Kerry left for the handiest run for Sam in the country.
2. Ulster becomes the defacto AI overshadowing the Sam itself It would have five div1 teams if Dublin joined.
3. The Leinster council lose their biggest brand. There might be a novelty factor at first. But Leinster without Dublin becomes the O’Byrne cup in all but name.
4. Ulster might not be keen on “Free Staters” playing in Ulster Championship .

However the main reason I wouldn’t mind Dublin moving to Ulster is because I am sick of looking at two of the most mismanaged teams in the country Kildare and Meath. Even Westmeath, Wicklow and Carlow, Louth would put it up to them. I will say it outright both Kildare and Meath are joke counties at this stage. If you put a Jim Gavin type of manager in charge of either, no way would they be doing as poorly. There are players there, but they are not being managed correctly IMO.

2024 Example Round 1:

SEED 1 V SEED 4 (provincial winners rewarded with home advantage.)

Kerry v Down, Galway v Westmeath

Dublin v Cork, Donegal v Louth.

SEED 2 V SEED 3 (separate draw for home advantage.)

Derry v Roscommon, Mayo v Cavan

Tyrone v Monaghan, Armagh v Meath. (Arguably Meath guaranteed at least Seed 3 and advantage home for winning Tailteann Cup 2023.)

Leinster is still in a weak state, reflected by the number of counties missing out in the All Ireland. If the Tailteann or possibly even the addition of a Third Tier is their level, so be it.

Leinster is in a weak state ? are you having a laugh ? Total Kerry dominance for over a century in Munster , deflect deflect !!

Yeah this seems fine and probably an improvement on the status quo, I'm not disputing that at all. My problem more comes from what I've already stated- the Leinster Championship would continue to be a shambles and interest and participation would continue to decline in that province. As the Leinster Championship continues to feed into the All-Ireland, the rest of the counties are harmed by this shambles continuing too. This state of affairs isn't any good and if we are going to reform the structure, then we should deal with this problem.

I know what you've said about the Provincials not going anywhere but I think that is defeatist and just accepting that the shambles in Leinster will inevitably continue and feed into the All-Ireland doesn't serve the GAA well.

Connacht and Munster have a lot to answer as well with lopsided draws devaluing qualifying for a provincial final.

Ulster then are quite content to support the provincial championships. What are Ulster's reasons for wanting to maintain the provincial championships?

2024 number of counties per province in the top 18 of the league:

Ulster - 8

Leinster - 5

Munster - 2

Connacht - 3

Leinster has a reasonable number of mid level counties. The problem is the gap to any of them actually realistically winning.

Why take the Top 18 as the metric? That's an arbitrary line you've drawn simply to try and bring more teams from Leinster in. If we take Division 1 or even Division 1 and 2, we see again there that Leinster is completely underperforming relative to the size of the province.

And then as you correctly point out, even for those higher ranked teams they haven't a hope of actually competing and winning in Leinster, hence the declining interest and participation there. Sadly the once- great Leinster Championship has declined to such a dire state it'll now have to be abolished, at least insofar as it feeds into the All- Ireland.

From 1970 to 1997 three teams won the Leinster Championship. Offaly, Dublin & Meath. 98 to 2004 is the exception. Kildare won two and Westmeath and Laois won one each. After that Dublin took over again. So this once "great" Leinster Championship was interesting for about 6 years.

Why should we just ignore the more competitive period before the current shambles started? That was part of the Leinster Championship history, whether you try to ignore it or not because it's bad for your argument.

But even if I make that concession to you for the sake of our discussion. Three counties competing and winning is far, far better than the current uncompetitive shambles in Leinster. There were draws too. There was a sense of uncertainty. There was anticipation and excitement, when it truly was uncertain who the winner would be in a given year. Sadly, those days are now long gone with the predictable impact on interest and participation, which are plummeting. Nobody benefits from the status quo, least of all the supporters in Leinster, who are voting with their feet and staying away in droves. 

So with a heavy heart I have reluctantly concluded that the once-great Championship should be abolished as part of reforms to the All-Ireland. There is no point having the dead province of Leinster feeding into the All-Ireland, this impacts everyone. And if that Provincial goes, then they all will have to go.