Would GAA (football) solve a lot of its problem if it had a single, proper championship?

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033094#Comment_123033094

You said Top 18, not Top 16. Top 16 makes more sense. But even with that, as you said yourself, there is not a hope that any of those higher ranked Leinster Teams will be competitive so the uncompetitive shambles there will continue with declining interest and participation.

Is the second paragraph proposing a non- Province based All- Ireland Championship?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123032303#Comment_123032303

Since 1900, only four teams have won Munster. Outside of Kerry and Cork, in those 125 years, Clare have won it twice and Tipperary have won it five teams, making it SEVEN times in 125 years that the Championship has gone outside the big two. Kerry have won it an incredible 84 times in that 125 year, a percentage of 67.2%. If you want a definition of uncompetitiveness, you have it there in spades. Limerick and Waterford haven't won it since the nineteenth century.

Dublin have only won Leinster 56 times in that 125-year span. Kerry have won exactly 50% more provincial titles in the same period. In the same time period, 10 of the other 11 teams in Leinster have won the title, with only Wicklow missing out, having never won it.

Quite clearly, the longest-standing and statistically the deepest uncompetitive province is Munster. Those are the facts, you can come up with opinions on what we should do with the All-Ireland championship but stop trying to make fools out of us with false claims on the facts.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033187#Comment_123033187

With a heavy heart i have to say that the Munster championship was always a shambles is is 100% a dead province and must be abolished.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033317#Comment_123033317

Yep this poster is at it again with his false claims and pure and utter nonsense , 14 years of this rubbish from him !!

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033317#Comment_123033317

I'm not talking about 1900 or 1950. I've said the Leinster Championship was a once-great competition so happy to give credit where its due. But the glory days are gone for good- and in this discussion, I'm talking about nowadays, in recent years. 1900 doesn't have any contemporary relevance- but 2020 definitely does. Take since 2011, or even 2005, and it's clear that the Leinster Championship has become an uncompetitive shambles, unique among all provincial championships, truly in a league of its own in terms of how bad it is. And interest and participation is declining accordingly. It's harming the supporters of the game in Leinster the longer it continues and as Leinster feeds into the All-Ireland, it's harming everybody. This state of affairs where nobody benefits from this joke of a competition just can't be allowed to continue. It's beyond reform so abolition is the only way to go.

So everything I've said is factual sadly. I wish it wasn't and that Leinster was in a good state but this simply isn't the case. The good news for you though is that because we must, with a heavy heart, abolish Leinster to reform the GAA Championship properly, we will also have to abolish all other Provincials. Some people think other Provincials are subpar. We all agree that Leinster is an utter shambles. But the end-result of my proposed reforms impacts all Provincials equally- Provincials are gone and a new, more competitive system instead.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033801#Comment_123033801

Again you are spouting out complete and utter nonsense , saying it over and over again does not make it true , what is true as you very well know is it is in fact Munster that's unique among all provincial championships , Total Kerry Dominance for over 100 years , now this thread is going nowhere , full of pure and utter nonsense and like the other thread that was rightly shut down , and this thread should follow as your a complete WUM . 14 years of it Jesus Wept.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033861#Comment_123033861

100% agree, no problem discussing the second-least competitive province of Leinster, once the problems of the least competitive province of Munster have been rectified.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123033215#Comment_123033215

The second paragraph was just musing on the advantages of 4 groups of 5. I don't see that it would fit in with the current timescale. I wasn't suggesting a non provincial championship.

With all the criticism of Leinster, it is Sligo 2023 denying Meath an All Ireland spot and Clare 2024 denying Down an All Ireland spot that is more concerning.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123034353#Comment_123034353

But how do 4 groups of 5 fit in if we are still doing Provincials? Your previous proposal had more of a knockout style after the Provincials?

Also, how it it concerning if Sligo beat Meath or Clare beat down? So long as it's a fair competition and game, surely it doesn't matter that much? Meath's performances in non-Leinster matches are probably being dragged down from them continuing to be forced to compete in the shambles of Leinster anyway. The lack of competitiveness there isn't just impacting supporters, interest and participation is predictably dwindling among players there too.

And I can't say I blame them either. If you were given to choice to work hard all year only to have to participate in that joke of a competition, or have a good life, maybe head to the US for the summer, it's only natural you'd prefer the second option. And it's similarly hard for talented younger players of the game in Meath to be inspired to continue playing when they're exposed to the shambles that is Leinster as their best possible "reward" if they were to continue playing until adulthood. The logical thing to do in that situation is just take up a different sport, or focus on other things. These are the kinds of things I'm talking about when I refer to the harms to interest and participation to the GAA from allowing the shambles of the Leinster Championship to continue in its current form.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038731#Comment_123038731

The Munster hurling championship seems to have a good format of 2 home games and 2 away games. While 4th and 5th in Munster hurling might make the top 3 in Leinster, they seem ok with the current format.

Ulster similarly seem ok with the current football format. Why do Down not bring a motion to Congress to stop Clare having a soft route to the All Ireland series? Who do Meath not bring a motion to Congress to stop Sligo having a soft route to the All Ireland series?

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123038731#Comment_123038731

And again every single post you posted you mention the Shambles that is Leinster , what a load of nonsense this is , it has been shown to you with facts that Munster is a shambles and has been for over 100 years , you totally ignore this you are a WuM , time to shut down this ridiculous thread its going nowhere like the last one .

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040197#Comment_123040197

You shouldn't really engage with the poster you fuel that type of poster. Who has ruined many a initally good GAA thread.

I understand people having different opinions and so on. But when it is repetitive onesided and has no nuanced debate it is pointless. It is from Ewan McKenna's (the blogger) school of sensationalism with one main agenda, when it comes down to it attention focused on them. There is an ignore button for a reason.

When a person does not discuss GAA matches or GAA matches in general (on any of the many other threads) and returns to the same topic over and over. It really brings into question their sincerity. And makes me question if they are GAA fans at all, in the first place.

gormdubhgorm

On that particular type of poster that causes trouble on threads, when you drill down you find that they don't attend GAA matches at all.

Personally I enjoy the league (best competition) the weather is the only thing that is the bad thing about it, on occasion.

League matches down the country are fun fans mixing and having the craic. That is what the GAA is about. A lot of times it is a few generations from the same family which is great to see. Yet there are those on boards who never really get that sort of enjoyment from the GAA and are much happier being miserable. I would describe as as being miserable from a distance.

dunnerc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040859#Comment_123040859

gormdubhgorm you are of course 100% correct , i won't be engaging with that poster again 👍️

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123041038#Comment_123041038

I have been there, reluctantly used the ignore button (as I value all sorts of opinions especially ones that make me think) - but is just silly stuff it was the same every single thread.

The poster would always try and angle the same agenda lead issue even the most benign of discussions. Waste of time really.

—

Anyway back to the topic at hand, I think "The championship" as we know it will look a lot different in 20 years time. As others have said there might even be three championships.

If I supported weaker county I know I would want to be a competition that my team would at least be competitive in it.

It must be about years ago it was a lovely summers day, the Dubs were not playing. But I was in the humour for watching a match. Then I saw that that Louth were playing Wicklow in Parnell Park. Not much between the two of them I said to meself. Might be worth a watch.

So off I went. I can't remember much about the game itself. But I remember the air of tension around the ground. Both sets of fans REALLY wanted to win. There were fans standing up roaring at refs. That is what any competition should have a bit of tension in it. Something "in it" for both sides. Teams of a similar level giving it a lash. Where the fans really identify with their sides. That is the type of set up that is needed. Those are the type of matches a neutral would watch.

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123042003#Comment_123042003

There were discussions about a Third Tier during the summer. Hasn't gained traction yet. I'd imagine it would be the current setup going from 16:16 to 16:8:8.

Congress in February will vote on the double elimination format. From what I can see, just a few more tweaks and iterations might be required:

1. Going from the current 16:16 split to a 16:8:8 split eventually.
2. Provincial runners up guaranteed at least a Tier 2 Tailteann place. All Ireland qualification should be for provincial winners, Tailteann winner and 11 best league qualifiers.
3. All Ireland seeding;
   1. Round 1A: Provincial winners v Seed 4
   2. Round 1B: Seed 2 v Seed 3
   3. Round 2: Round 1A winners v Round 1B winners
   4. Repechage Round: Round 1A losers v Round 1B losers
   5. Preliminary Quarter Finals: Round 2 losers v Repechage winners
   6. Quarter Finals: Round 2 winners v Pre QF winners.

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123043797#Comment_123043797

I think 16 is too much at the top level , clare , meath, cavan, monaghan , westmeath all struggled last year with some really bad results , louth were brilliant last year but were destroyed by kerry , roscommon have been one of the top sides in connacht over the last ten years but really struggle in the latter part of the championship

legendary.xix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123046196#Comment_123046196

Some people are in favour of a 12:10:10 split. One problem is an agreed format in the current timescale. It would be difficult to keep Croke Park quarter-finals in a 12 team format. Quarter finals weekend is one of the biggest weekends of the year, with good crowds. Hard to move away from that.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123040859#Comment_123040859

You can address me directly, I'm happy to engage in debate. I haven't "ruined many an initially good GAA thread"- I've occasionally posted in around in around 3 threads in the last few years, with 90% of my posts coming in one thread, which was focused on a particular topic. And yes, I don't post as much on other threads but doesn't mean I'm not reading them. When I do post, I focus on the most important issues e.g., reforms to the Gaelic Football that will help it to get out of the rut its in, and things that will help the game in all counties, whether that's reform to the competition structure as in this thread, or other topics on other ones. If other people make the same points as I would otherwise make, there's no need to say them but when they're not being made, I speak up and try to contribute to development of a topic.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123039349#Comment_123039349

There is definitely interest there but that's probably because there are less teams participating in the hurling Championship, and therefore less competition for attention, there's more competitiveness in each individual game and lastly because the Munster Hurling Championship hasn't been a complete shambles for decades as in the Leinster Football Championship's case, so interest and participation remain strong. Not to say Munster Hurling is outstanding every year, just that there has not been a years-long sustained period of uncompetitive shambles as in Leinster's case in football.

Re Down and Clare asking those questions, again there is probably some merit in what you say but if they are losing the games fair and square I don't think the counties can have much complaint.

jack67

I can't believe that Kerry tosser is on here again thread spoiling , i mean Munster football is and always was a shambles and he sure as hell knows it , going on and on about Leinster and ignoring the shambles that is Munster , as was mentioned already , close this thread please .

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123048540#Comment_123048540

No need for personal insults! Kindly retract that. And no need for such hostility either, we should assume good faith on the part of each other- we all want what we think is best for the GAA, we may just disagree on what exactly that is. No need to call for the thread to close either- there is a robust debate going on about reforms to the structure of the Championship. Whether the proposed reforms are motivated because of the number of low-consequence games, the number of mismatches, the shambles of the Leinster Championship, it doesn't matter- the point is, the debate is happening. No need to try and have the thread closed just because you don't like some people's views.

jack67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123052269#Comment_123052269

Kindly stop lying , we all know you have an agenda , you have history of it going on for years , kindly also admit that Munster Football is a shambles ! and for peoples views ! no problem there from me , i do however have a problem with your views .

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123052361#Comment_123052361

stop replying

legendary.xix

Connacht and Munster can produce lopsided draws. Clare beating Tipperary or Waterford to qualify for the All Ireland. Sligo beating London and New York to qualify for the All Ireland.

Leinster despite criticism of it has runners up who are also in the top 16.

It'll be a bad move if provincial winners don't gain a seeding advantage over provincial runners up in the format to be voted on in Congress in February.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123047200#Comment_123047200

You wouldn't have to move away from QF weekend.

Hypothetically say the top tier went 12 team. Two groups of 6. Top team of each group go straight to the AISF. Team 2 gets home advantage against team 3 of the opposite group. Apply the same throughout the tiers.

So on QF weekend, you'd have 2 senior, 2 intermediate and 2 junior (called so for arguments sake) Championship QF's, one of each tier on a Saturday, and the same on a Sunday, all played in provincial venues with the atmosphere to match.

A veritable festival of football, it's be the only show in town that weekend, and given the provincial venues and likely closeness of the games on show, probably good entertainment too.

gaffer91

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123115729#Comment_123115729

Just to clarify, this would be in place of the Provincials, right? As in, the Provincials wouldn't feed into the 3 competitions in any way?

legendary.xix

Jarlath Burns' favoured double eliminator is very suitable for 11 automatic qualifiers for the following year, allowing 5 spots for the Tailteann winner and the 4 provincial winners.

• 8 All Ireland quarter finalists: automatically qualified for the following year. Big incentive to get to Round 2A and onto the quarter finals with minimal fuss.

• The 4 Round 2B losers should enter Playoff semi finals. The 2 winners and the 4 Pre QF losers can enter Playoff finals for 3 more qualification spots.

• The Tailteann winner will take the 12th qualifying spot.

• 4 spots are left vacant for the following year's provincial championships.

- Where duplication of qualification occurs, the league can provide wildcards.

- League seeding could apply in Round 1 for Provincial winners v Seed 4 and Seed 2 v Seed 3.

Pixel Eater

The Provincials have to be culled. I've no idea why people are even entertaining the notion of keeping them in any shape or form. The GAA have sacrificed many of their scared cows over the years - foreign games in their grounds, shifting the All-Ireland from September, radically altering the rules of football so I don't know why so many are attached to the utterly predictable, unexciting and increasing irrelevant Provincial Championships.

The GAA need to be careful; rugby is more popular then ever, ditto for soccer with the League of Ireland especially increasing it's attendances. They're now [the GAA] hosting a NFL match, Aussie Rules is on TG4; there is more competition from other sports than ever. In contrast GAA attendances were down last season. If they want to maintain and even expand their popularity they would need to just bite the bullet and create a single proper league/championship with a regular schedule that supporters can follow and attend on a consistent basis.

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123123202#Comment_123123202

Yeah.