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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    And the S8 still has to go as far as the Frank Keane Garage to make a right turn when the simple and obvious solution is to allow buses make a right turn from Temple Hill onto Monkstown Road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,178 ✭✭✭trellheim


    it aint even tendered as far as I can see , N2 needs it as well



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    It's more important for the S2 AFAIK and will be crucial for the O



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭thomasj


    I was watching a video from sinn Fein about the N8 bus and the NTA told them that the current status of the N8 is quarter 1 of 2026

    Obviously take that with a pinch of salt and id say it's safe to say will be pushed out again.

    I wonder does that target timeline of Q1/26 apply to B spine or just the N8?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭VG31


    The NTA have added maps showing the changes to the 4, 11 and 13 when Phase 6a launches. That's a welcome addition as the communication about those changes was quite poor during the original announcement.

    https://www.transportforireland.ie/getting-around/by-bus/phase-6a-e-spine/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,094 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Very helpful, thanks. Any idea how frequent the 11 will be from Infirmary Road? It's replacing the 46a which is fairly frequent and always extremely busy. And it doesn't look like the O is ready to launch any time soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭thomasj


    I personally think the 13 should've replaced the 46A and run it's 12 minute frequency that it does now. Would be better than the planned 15 minute frequency on the 11.

    Run the 11/a out of Heuston . It would mean retaining a link between Heuston and Stephens Green .

    I suppose in having the 11/a via Parnell square they were looking at an onward connection for those that will lose the 11 to the 19 but if the 19 was extended to Shaw street or college green there would be a connection on dolier street and Westmoreland street .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I understand it’ll be similar to the current 11 frequency at peak times (but with additional early morning departures from Phoenix Park), and then every 15 mins during the day (half-hourly full route and half-hourly shorts from Phoenix Park to Leeson St).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I suspect that it will tied in with the A Spine as that would make more sense given the N8 serves both sides of that spine.

    But I find it difficult to believe that will be Q1 2026 - there are 4 phases to happen before then (E, O, F and D), so more likely sometime later in 2026.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    They are lining these up as part of the longer term pattern.

    The direct connection from Heuston to St Stephen’s Green isn’t in the long term plan - the 4 will become part of the B-Spine, so it makes sense for it to now serve the Quays.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 760 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Thanks for the link - good to see improved information.

    I hope they plan to increase capacity on other bus routes through Drumcondra. There is a 2km section from Dorset up to Home Farm Road that will lose up to 9x buses per hour (between the 11 and 13), which will only be replaced by 3x services per hour on the 19.

    The focus of protest from some Drumcondra residents was related to the 19 terminating at Parnell but AFAIK there was nothing said about the lower frequency of service, which is a bigger (real) issue in my opinion. Ideally they should significantly increase frequency on the 41...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There aren’t any other mitigating changes planned as far as I’m aware.

    And it’s not just there, as the N11 is about to lose 3.5 buses an hour off-peak plus the hourly 84 between Bray and Cornelscourt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Also don't forget the loss of the 75 has put more pressure on the 46a/E2 between Stillorgan and Dun Laoghaire too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    Off-peak, the N11 can easily afford to lose 3.5 buses per hour. It probably means you'll have two half-full E2s and an E1 running together instead of three 46As, two 145s and a 155. And the 84 carries fresh air between Bray and Blackrock for much of the day, so that will be largely unmissed. The success hinges on somehow getting them to run on time, rather than early, late or in a convoy. Outside of the "QBC" it's hard to see how that can be done without giving buses full priority over other traffic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭thomasj


    And also depends on if the public can accept when buses are at stops for minutes to catch up on the trip timings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭Burt Renaults


    This is why it's so important to eliminate (by whatever means) the effect that cars have on bus journeys. Councils should be ensuring that buses never have to sit behind queues of cars. It doesn't mean having bus lanes absolutely everywhere - it means having them in strategic places, leading to busy junctions, etc. Buses should always (not just on the N11, but everywhere) be able to skip to the front of the queue, where the traffic light automatically gives the bus priority as soon as possible. They should never have to wait for "permission" to exit a bus stop either. It's truly bizarre how it's considered acceptable for bus users (i.e. people who are doing the right thing) to be forced to sit behind queues of people who very much are not doing the right thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,178 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Just to show a random 46a schedule - taken on Sunday afternoon two weeks ago - nothing special . This is Nassau street outside Cafe en Seine. This - for us on the NCR - is what we are losing down to a max 15 mins schedule no. 11 route.

    jp2.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    That’s not such a problem given that the L25 and S8 offer mitigating alternatives now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,259 ✭✭✭Daith


    Three 46a on a Sunday all within 10 minutes? I don't know if they were bunched up or some traffic issue, but that seems out of kilter with most regular bus schedules (let alone a Sunday one)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The run up to Christmas always creates traffic problems.

    I wouldn’t use anytime in December as representative.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It’s not a good look though - reducing frequency having only relatively recently increased it.

    Given that the infrastructure works are years away, the buses won’t be getting any more priority than they are currently, which poses a real challenge for the schedulers.

    The worrying thing though is that it’s not just off-peak that’s affected.

    Currently in the morning peak between 07:30 and 08:30 there are 17 buses heading north from Bray Main St (excluding the 185):

    3 x 45a

    2 x 84

    1 x 84a

    1 x 143

    7 x 145

    3 x 155.

    By my reckoning, without additional extra works that aren’t public knowledge, there will be 11 buses leaving Bray Main Street between 07:30 and 08:30 post-BusConnects phase 6a:

    3 x 45a

    8 x E1

    That’s a big drop in capacity along the southern part of the N11 corridor between Bray and Cornelscourt when schools traffic is at its peak.

    Further in, are the six timetabled morning peak extra works on the 46a and 145 that feed in from Woodbrook, Loughlinstown Hospital and Brewery Road to add capacity being retained? I don't know because there's no mention of the original proposed E9 anywhere.

    The cancellation of the 46e will be a loss of another 2 buses inbound from Stillorgan inwards.

    I do have severe misgivings about these reductions at peak times - unless there are extra works planned to plug the gaps, it could be a real mess.

    There are good things in this phase, don't get me wrong, but I really do worry about the morning peak capacity along the N11.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,011 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    As somebody who has stood many many mornings on the N11 for 2 or 3 buses to go past full and be waiting 20-30 mins to then get on and stand on a packed bus, I worry too

    It can depend what stop you get on at in terms of loading and alighting, and it is easy to talk about empty stretches but when it gets past DL it gets very full for some parts until people get out UCD If you are in the stretch between DL and UCD it can be very difficult getting on at morning peak



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭thomasj


    If I was getting a bus after mount merrion avenue and in that position , I would look at getting the S6 to UCD and then the 39A onwards.

    Shouldnt be in that position really though.

    Further down if near the S8, the option of the green LUAS would be tempting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    Don't operate on the N11 though. The main reason I mentioned it was because you mentioned the 84/a. Many times I've gone to get a bus to DL from Foxrock Church or Deansgrange and the 75 has been the first bus to show up now only the 46a is on that road. It helped ease some of the pressure on the 46a.

    Not really that relevant example I know but neither is the 84/a which doesn't go into the city centre. 84/a is hourly only duplicates for the 145/155 for a small enough stretch and takes a detour to serve Cherrywood which the 145/155 do not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I take your point - there would definitely be much heavier loadings from the likes of the IADT between there and Whites X or Stillorgan, but at the same time the L25 has taken a decent chunk of the Dún Laoghaire to Stillorgan traffic off the 46a. Swings and roundabouts.

    I do think that the 15 minute frequency L25 is one of the success stories of the new network.

    The same issue prevails in Ballinteer since the 75 was removed - now it’s just the 14 through Broadford to/from Dundrum - the alternative option (the 74) is now out on Grange Road.

    I referenced the 84 as there’s still reasonable schools traffic on that southern section of the N11 corridor, and local traffic as far as Cornelscourt, and every time I have used the 84 I’ve seen people using it to connect onto the LUAS at Brides Glen.

    We shall see!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    After the new UCD interchange is in place that will be a much more attractive option, but it’s a bit of a pain having to detour all the way into the campus to the terminus on the S6 to connect with the 39a.

    I haven’t noticed large numbers using the S8 from the DL end to connect with LUAS at Sandyford, but there are certainly significant numbers making that connection from the west - looping westbound S8 buses via the LUAS stop at Sandyford was definitely the correct decision.

    Perhaps that will reduce when the more frequent A Spine connection along Grange Road to/from Dundrum starts (the 74 is only every 30 mins), but it’s a real positive to see people connecting between modes and using the €2 90 minute fare in decent numbers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,458 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    With all this chat, have we even a date yet for the implementation of 6a ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,049 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Absolutely agree with you on people using the different modes and the 90 minute fare. It's made a massive difference . I do it myself when heading into work .

    Am looking forward to seeing the UCD interchange when it's done , it's already making a massive difference with more services coming from different areas accessing it .

    Hopefully they correct the imbalance of services on the N11. I'm sure they've been given feedback on it. Time will tell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    The draft date is 26th January but that seems to now possibly be in doubt per the article below which is worrying.

    I wonder if the operators are still facing staffing issues after all?

    DB in Donnybrook are supposed to be ready (a driver posted that here a while back), but I don’t know about Harristown or indeed how GAI are fixed - their routes are expanding significantly.

    https://m.independent.ie/regionals/wicklow/bray-news/new-bus-routes-for-bray-could-face-further-delays/a239806531.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,810 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    You make an excellent point - demand levels do vary all along the corridor - unlike others there are spikes along certain sections.

    That’s why they feed the extra work buses in at a Woodbrook, Loughlinstown, Brewery Road and why the likes of the low frequency routes 7b, 7d, 46e, 116 and 118 all add much needed extra capacity along the busiest section of the corridor approaching the Gaelscoileanna at Fosters Avenue and of course UCD.

    Most of these “sweeper” routes (capacity busters effectively) will thankfully continue to operate in a slightly different guise (mostly just re numbered) when the later phases that affect them happen.



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