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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've no idea why you think wltp has any relevance to catching DPT deletes. The NCT isn't catching them it should.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,720 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I don't care whether they pass the emissions test in their old diesel. I don't care whether they have the car mapped/deleted/whatever. If old diesel owners are happy to continue spewing NoX into the air after 2030, then I'm happy if that's made as difficult as possible for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,101 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    You said diesels are not performing to standard. That standard is WLTP calculation. The same WLTP standards that give MPG, emissions and range.

    There is no NCT test for missing DPF beyond a visual check. If you put a fake DPF (ie a hollow shell) it passes the visual check.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,101 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Why have a standard if it's rendered irrelevant anyway?

    The country , nay, the entire western world, runs on diesel fuel, from california to berlin and from Barrow to Cape Town and all in between.

    If your "making difficult", is a twice yearly test of standards that you state are irrelevant anyway, I don't think it will have any real impact. If anything, a 6 month space between NCT is more likely to keep older cars on the road, as there will be less chance for deferred maintenance to build up.

    Why 2030? Nothing is going to change in 2030.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I didn't, that was raisin.

    I'm saying they shouldn't be allowed to delete dpfs because of the noxious pollution. They should be caught. Not entirely sure why you don't have a problem with dpf deletes. It's a health hazard.

    If they changed the motor tax to incentivise diesels you can use it to do the reverse. Ireland is going backwards.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,101 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The problem then is with the testing system. The NCT should test emissions that meet manufacturer standards. A car without a DPF should not pass.

    I have no issues with disincentivising diesels. Like I say, I'm just under 10 years driving EV so I'm not anti-EV at all. I'm thankful to be in a position where I could and can afford to buy an EV or several. Not everyone has that chance. I know of someone - the typical single parent sob story but I know this person IRL - who is a single mum of two teens and on carers. She can barely afford to tax insure and nct her 15 year old diesel, let alone put fuel in the car. Someone living week to week like that cannot afford to buy a car, let alone a 10k+ EV. So what we should do is what we have been doing all along, use taxation as an instrument to drive change of new cars to the market. Look what happened to the first generation 11-16 plate EVs, they are now second cars in a lot of houses that would have had 2 ICE cars otherwise. Then in a few years time the example person I mentioned about will be able to buy a used EV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,720 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Then in a few years time the example person I mentioned about will be able to buy a used EV.

    You've just answered your question to me of why 2030? Nothing to do with regs. In 5 years time there should be affordable EVs at all levels of the market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,101 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    We're not selling enough into the new market to have that in time for 2030. The new market would need to be norwegian levels of EV penetration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    That was me and I was referring to emissions which isn't exactly the same as WLTP

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Yeah that's a false narrative. No one's asking them to buy a EV. Just not delete the dpf. If they have a car, they bought a car and pay to run it. It's not free. If you were that broke you wouldn't have any car in the first place. EVs on adverts start around 4k. Even the bangernomics thread shifted to 3k to get any sort of ICE car.

    Diesel bans are coming it's only a matter of time.

    https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto/news/delhi-pollution-police-intensifies-checking-amid-bs-3-petrol-bs-4-diesel-vehicle-ban-41734494073209.html



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You can get a emissions petrol doesn't have to be EV and certainly doesn't have to be diesel. Look at the ULEZ.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭creedp


    It's not though. In the boiling alive world we're living in CO2 is the only emission that matters and the 2008 change to the motor tax system reflects this. Of course NOx is actually more important in the local environment so the NOx levy was subsequently implemented which, at a stroke of a pen or click of a keyboard, closed the biggest source of used dirty diesels into this country overmight. Progress.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,153 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Anyway enough of diesel I'm sorry for derailing the thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Very interesting piece, although I'm disappointed that the 1997 game didn't feature at all

    To summarise, China bet big on the future while Germany bet on the past

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭creedp


    Interesting video and shows that it's not rocket science to work on EV batteries. Yet I've just been told by a Nissan dealer that their master EV technician is not allowed work on EV batteries. All he can do is plug it into diagnostic equipment and generate a report. If a problem is identified or not identified the car must be sent to Nissan Windsor who could have off the roads for weeks and more that likely will recommend installing a new battery.

    It's a disgrace that a company that has been selling Leafs in this country for at least 15 years continue to operate in such a cowboy fashion and, for me, this is a key reason why people don't trust EVs. It's utterly ridiculous that a main dealer can't work on an EV battery when someone like Ed China can carry out a repair and get a Leaf back on the road after completing a standard training course.

    As a matter of interest does anyone have experience of any EV brand dealer who can and will carry out repair work on the battery? To my mind unless this becomes the norm there will remain a completely justified scepticism amongst the non EV supporting element of the population about the longevity of EV batteries and cars. The industry has only itself to blame



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Some quick checks show that the required training costs around €1400 for the level 4 course which covers HV components. You need to do the Level 3 course beforehand which costs €1000

    You'd think €2,400 would be a pretty modest amount of money for mechanic training. It says a lot about the industry that they won't spend anything on upskilling their mechanics

    I know VW will change battery modules in their garages, there was a recall for defective modules a while ago. However I was told they can't store modules onsite so you'd need to drop the car in before the new modules arrived

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,210 ✭✭✭creedp


    What annoys me most is the service manager ignoring anything I said to him, completely blanking any mention of Leafspy diagnostics and firmly advising me that their onsite ev master technician is one of the very few in the country sufficiently trained to work on ev batteries.

    So basically zip my ill informed cake hole and let this expert do his thing only for him to tell me he can't actually work on the battery and it would have to be sent to Windsor. As I said its a sad state of affairs for the EV industry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'd say it's more a reflection of the car maintenance industry as a whole

    Mechanics are an expensive labour cost, so you'd want them to turn over as many cars as possible in a day to maximise profit

    This is partly why the industry has shifted towards replacing parts instead of repairing them.

    Interestingly, you can find quite a few videos of mechanics in poorer countries doing complete refurbishment of engine parts since it's the opposite situation there, new parts are significantly more expensive than labour

    Of course manufacturers jumped on this enthusiastically seeing another revenue stream from part sales, plus not having to deal with refurbishing parts

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Get ready for a painful repair bill!

    So Andy recently got himself an older Tesla Model S 75D with 186,000 miles, or just under 300,000km for us millennials and younger generations 😉

    Basically, car needed some work (new charge port cover, new wiper assembly, fix front suspension, new tyres and wheels) which came to around £4,000 (possibly excluding VAT, wasn't quite sure if he added it in)

    Considering that was a fair amount of work by a brand garage it doesn't seem that outrageous. The tyres were something like £700 anyway

    It's still pretty steep, especially since he got the wheels for free and did all the bodywork cleanup himself which would normally add a few hundred

    So what do we reckon, fleeced or reasonable? One thing which was shocking was they charged him for a test drive at the end. I realise it's mechanics time which costs money, but I would expect the labour of a repair to include testing

    £165 per hour for labour is pretty shocking, I'm definitely in the wrong business if that's what a mechanic is paid. I'd love to know how much of that the garage takes, probably a significant portion, all those service managers need to be paid after all 🙄

    One thing I found particularly interesting was that Andy said he couldn't find any garages near him which would take on EVs. I find this very strange and wonder if it's BS or anti Tesla attitude. With the exception of the charge port cover, everything done was the same components you'd have on any other car and so any mechanical should be able to fix them

    Personally I've taken the ID.4 to two different independent garages, one to get the aircon fixed and another to get the tyres changed. Neither of them batted an eyelid when I said what model car it was and were happy to do the job

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Been watching his videos since he bought.
    he’s been around years on YT doing EV stuff so he’s not stupid.

    If you breakdown those repairs and brought the same problems to VW with an ID4, you’d be paying the same money. Any main dealer would be. He could have used an Indy but that maybe wouldn’t have been as good a video. The 3k includes vat, he states that in the video. Not bad for a main dealer doing that work, but a local Indy may have been half that.

    But remember, YT is his business. He can off set all these costs against that so it makes sense to use a main dealer.

    Garage rates of 165 an hour is normal. Take out vat and overheads and the cost to do business.

    Post edited by Gumbo on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah I've been a subscriber for years, he's very down to earth compared to some of the other EV channels (looking at you Fully Charged)

    I wasn't really disputing the repair costs, it's a lot but the car needed a lot of work. I certainly don't think it's unique to Tesla, I was recently told I'd need to pay €900 in my ID.4 to replace the mobile connection unit after it bricked the car during a software update (well done VW 🙄)

    The part I found strange was his claim he couldn't find a reputable independent garage that would take it on. He said he could find a few who would give it a try but had never worked on Tesla before, which probably wouldn't inspire confidence in me either

    Is it a similar situation over here? As I said I haven't had issues finding independent garages for the ID.4 or Leaf, but I haven't had any extensive repairs done (yet)

    I'll be looking around for a garage to replace the connection unit in the ID.4 which will be an interesting exercise. It isn't an EV specific part but you'd wonder if there's some programming that only VW can do

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I suppose it could be where he is based? I don’t know that tbh?

    If he was in a major city/town, it might have been easier.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I suspect that's definitely part of it, I think he's somewhere between York and Newcastle and mentioned having to bring the car to Leeds which is casting the net fairly wide

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Redfox25


    It's good content from Andy.

    He mentioned before that he has referral credits to help pay the service costs so its all helping. The things that needed work, apart from the charger door were non ev specific so that bodes well for high mileage cars.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,992 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    The bit with the tyres at the start was a bit of a shocker. Pretty sure it was worn down to the cables, scary to imagine someone driving around on that

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Redfox25


    My brother runs a tyre center, he see this sort of stuff all the time. Alot of folks don't or won't check tyres.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,814 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Thought those costs quite reasonable and all high milage related



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,024 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    I thought the same. The only EV related problem was the charge port door, unfortunately if you go to a main dealer you get charged main dealer prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,547 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Regen braking on Barcelona's subway now powering EV chargers above ground.

    https://fortune.com/2024/12/18/barcelona-subway-train-brakes-power-electric-cars/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 592 ✭✭✭JohnySwan


    I'm not at all surprised by this, a company subsidised to the tune of billions by the Chinese government.



This discussion has been closed.
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