DART+ (DART Expansion)

Just to correct a point here - the DART drivers did not get a pay rise for driving longer trains.

There was a claim at the time, but it was rejected.

This nonsense keeps getting repeated like an old wives' tale every so often.

There are multi-year pay agreements in place nowadays across the CIÉ Group of companies which, to the best of my knowledge, incorporate the use of new technology.

There's plenty amount of land west of Kilcock along with motorway access for construction and then the potential for a park-and-ride type station like Dunboyne in future.

That would have to be the case if that option is chosen

You're suggesting that they would build a Dart Depot beyond Kilcock station and not include dualling/electrification through Kilcock Station to reach it as part of that plan? Though it is true that a proposal to do basically exactly that (sans depot) is apparently already in the works, perhaps they will tag the depot into that design work and try and get it fast tracked.

Fingers crossed that the backlog is clearing and we won't see it languishing for several extra years and severely delaying Dart+

Kilkock hasn't gone to ABP yet, still in internal design AFAIK, I'm more speculating that Depot design and placement might be rolled into that work if a site beyond Kilcock is selected, whether that's actually the best move time wise I don't know.

I don't know if there is a specific mechanism that the government has to ask ABP to prioritise a project, but whatever fast tracking needs to happen for the Depot should happen. Depending on the existing JRs for West it could end up being ready when the rest of West is, but it delays all the other routes as well.

How many DART sets would be needed for the full capacity network? I am wondering how the timeline might look for increasing the fleet size with the depot delayed.

It is easy enough to get a number for just 1 hour of peak capacity. 11 from HH, 11 from Bray/Greystones, 10 from Maynooth/M3, 9 from the Northern line, and I think the Howth shuttle would need 3 trains for 6tph. So that would be 44 trains and assuming during peak times the plan is for every train to be full length, that would be 88 sets for 1 hour of peak service. But if 88 would be needed for just 1 hour of service, how many would be needed to both maintain that during peak hours and have enough spare sets to cover sets in maintenance? Maybe 120 or 130 sets? I can't imagine it would need all 150 sets of the framework would it?

750 carriages is 150 sets plus the 17 Japanese sets so 167 total

Bray Malahide is 75 minutes, 10 minute layover, 85 minutes end to end to sustain service at 11tph would need 35 sets in motion, thats 70 total…

There's a lot of Dart activity in Inchicore

From the TSS diagrams IE has given, they are in various report, but I can't seem to find the best one from either the D+ website or my computer. I did find one in the technical report from PDF page 28(doc page 13) Volume 2 in the link below. It does make sense though, if the capacity is for 12tph, 1 has to be the sligo service and 1 has to be the longford service, the other 10 would be DARTs.

https://www.dartplus.ie/en-ie/projects/dart-south-west/public-consultation-round-2/dart-south-west-useful-material-and-downloads

However I do agree that a 4 minute turn around is too quick, it is probably closer to 10 minutes, eitherway somewhere around 16 trains/32 sets does sound right at least.

What about CACR?

It seems based on the fact they intend to start it as a battery service that it will surely need a fair few sets.

Don't they intend on running it on battery only first before overhead lines are out in though?

You'd have to assume their planning on using the new Alstom stock down there in the interim if that's the case.

I don't think there are any concrete plans for electrification at the moment, however I think early in the planning process they considered only using BEMUs rather than traditional electrification. However I imagine that plan has been scrapped given the target frequency for the network. When it comes to the final CACR network I don't think we will see any new units in cork before the depot, so whether they even consider a BEMU as an interim solution might depend on whether the electrification takes significantly longer than the depot. Hopefully if they are still planning to submit the RO next year, we should see more concrete plans and timelines soon.

I don't think so, both because of the reasons I already mentioned, but also I think the GDA is going to need all of the units they recieve. Additionally temporarily sending a handful of units all the way to cork would likely be a logistical nightmare. What we could see is as the 29Ks are freed from the GDA, some could be sent to cork however that assumes they can be cascaded before the depot and electrification is complete or well progressed. I do think they might order the same units for the CACR network, it would likely make commissioning the units much easier, but I just can't see them sending DART units to Cork.

Also to answer your the question from your other post, the original CMATS plan for the CACR fleet was for 22x 41m 2-car sets. To meet the frequency required on the network, it does sound like they would be mostly if not only operating as single-set trains. So even though more recent statements from IE make it sound as though they are planning to order up to 30x 82m 5-car units (they referanced the depot as supporting 150 cars), I still think they will be ordering at least 22 sets. Though I think its possible they will order all 30 the depot can support to better support the network.

Not really, it could still branch out at the origional location.

If there was some forward planning a third track at Kilcock could provide interchange with DART and not impact DART frequency

Assuming the bonkers Sligo trains to Heuston plan goes ahead, there would absolutely be a need to keep the interchange at Maynooth as it is a major destination in its own right with two higher education institutions (St. Pats college and NUI Maynooth) being within walking distance of Maynooth train station. By contrast, Kilcock is more of an origin point and very rarely a destination AFAIK.