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LUAS Network + Future Expansion

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,723 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    It allows unit exchanges between the lines, it was never intended for service; ditto the OCS one.

    Its of very limited need, as Green Line units are too long for the stops on the Red Line anyway; however when cross-city opened there were units borrowed from the Red Line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Thank you! I figured it was about shuffling rolling stock, rather than providing service options. I know Green and Red would be very hard to mix and match, not just due to tram lengths: Green runs to a much tighter schedule than Red once out of the city centre, so trying to make space for Red trams in a stream of Green ones would just degrade service quality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 254 ✭✭PlatformNine


    https://www.euronews.com/travel/2024/11/27/want-to-ride-the-worlds-longest-tram-hop-aboard-the-record-breaking-vehicle-in-this-german

    It seems we have now been bumped down to third, with these being almost 4m longer than our 502s. I would be curious to see if later Luas projects are designed for longer trams however, it seems more manufacturers are designing 50m+ trams, and the longer trams seem to be gaining popularity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,953 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    How do you become an ABP inspector?

    What qualifications are required?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 oliver_murray


    5 years of experience as a planner and a 4 year undergraduate degree in planning



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,556 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 254 ✭✭PlatformNine


    I can't find an exact number but it is over 400 passengers. Which is interesting because these new 59m trams supposedly only carry 380 passengers. However the trams are narrow gauge, not 100% low-floor, and seem to have fewer doors, so I could see why that might be the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72 ✭✭Brightlights66


    It is now a full 7 years since the last inch of rail was built in Dublin (The link-up opened in December 2017).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭scrabtom




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 oliver_murray


    yes but you'd need a somewhat relevant undergrad to get that masters anyways



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,091 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The anniversary should be marked by lobby groups to embarrass (if that’s possible) the governing parties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,556 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    In a state awash with money and a massive infrastructure deficit, its beyond a disgrace…



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    A health warning about passenger numbers. There is an important piece of information missing from such numbers. How many passengers per square meter are they basing the measurement on?

    Some measure such numbers on 4 per sqm, other companies and countries on 5 per sq meter, etc. So unless that number is included it can be hard to compare.

    This is even the case between the original short Luas trams and the newer longer ones. The original ones used a more dense passenger number then the new longer ones, so the new longer ones don't look to have added as many extra passengers per given length as they should have! But it is really just a different measurement.

    You are probably correct about narrow gauge and not 100% low floor actually make them less capacity then Luas, but worth keeping in mind the passengers per square meter measurement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,814 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Once the Lucan Luas, plus the various extensions are built, what would be the next line that would get built? Not another extension somehwhere surely?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 160 ✭✭OisinCooke


    I think either a Point to Poolbeg Red Line extension or the new Lucan Line (hopefully with through-running through the south city centre and out into Ringsend/Irishtown that way) are the next projects and realistically after that I’d say will come Luas Bray.

    It’s hard to say what will come after those though, maybe a diversion of the Green Line down the N11, to go in tandem with Metrolink finally opening by this stage and people realising that a Metro-ified Green Line IS actually what they want and what is needed…

    After that though is anyone’s guess. Luas Knocklyon or Malahide Rd/Balgeiffin seem like the ones that would be needed the most but either of these would be possibly the biggest Luas project to date and will require huge planning. Maybe an orbital line will get the go-ahead either? It’s really anyone’s guess I think…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 254 ✭✭PlatformNine


    That I couldn't tell you, the story Ive heard (though I can't remember where from, but it is supported by old articles I have seen) is that they were to hold 350-400 passengers, but oncer in service TII found that they could carry over 400.

    But yea having been on my fare share of AM peak trams… I question the safety of that 400 number.

    It could also be that the balance between seated and standing capacity is different on these new trams. I can't find interior pictures to get a reference, and the only reference I can find is that is seats 144 passengers from the article below. If that is true I think that would be a good bit more than the 502s, though I am not sure on the seating count of the 502s, or if the article is actually correct.

    https://rollingstockworld.com/lrv/skoda-group-releases-the-world-longest-tram/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 254 ✭✭PlatformNine


    Luas Cork I believe is the next, and I believe is supposed to have some progress to show sooner than Later. After that is Luas Poolbeg, Lucan, and Bray next, all which are supposed to be completed before 2042. Technically I think Lucan is the furthest along the planning process, but because of its length and likely requiring another depot, even if started first it would be operational last. Bray I think is in an odd spot, because it keeps getting delayed, and personally I think given the length of the line, should be at least upgradable to a metro standard along side Charlemont-Sandyford.

    Post-2042 is much more difficult to say, I believe idea from GDATS is that the post-2042 line planning is supposed to start soon than later, so that the highest demand corridors can begin construction and be operational shortly after 2042. However given the number of alignments that definitely isn't the case for all of them.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Balgriffin is an easy win and wouldn't be disruptive apart from the approach to Connolly (though they really need to continue across the river then head east to Ringsend).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Once all of the current public transport projects have gone to tender, there should be some resources freed up for future planning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,953 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    The next line to be built should be: (parts of it really should be metro standard from Ballyboden on in to CC- but anyway):

    TALLAGHT (from the red line terminus at the square down to the N81 and east towards old bawn road

    OLD BAWN ROAD- (continue south towards Firhouse road west)

    THE OLD MILL- (P+R opportunity, local bus routes to feed into this stop, turn east towards M50 Firhouse jnct)

    KILLINNINY ROAD 1 (at scholars pub)

    KILLINNINY ROAD 2 (at junction of ballycullen road)

    SCHOLARSTOWN ROAD (outside st colmcilles school)

    BALLYBODEN WAY (near boden heath)

    ROUNDABOUT AT BALLYBODEN WAY AND BALLYBODEN ROAD (The luas splits here and one leg heads up towards sandyford green line terminus via- TAYLORS LANE + GRANGE ROAD + BREHON FIELD ROAD + N31

    the other leg heads up ballyboden road towards RATHFARNHAM CASTLE + TERENURE + HAROLDS X + CLANBRASSIL STREET+ PATRICK STREET+ CHRISTCHURCH+ LORD EDWARD STREET+ DAME STREET

    Post edited by tom1ie on


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    When the original 40m Luas trams were launched they were advertised in the press as having a capacity of 358 passengers. When the 55m trams were introduced they were advertised as having a capacity of just 408 people.

    That didn't really make much sense as that is less then a 15% increase in stated capacity, while the 55m trams were over 30% longer and TII stated they had 30% more capacity.

    I've seen newer documents from TII that state the 40m trams have a 315 passenger capacity and the 55m 408 people. That makes a lot more sense, 408 is roughly 30% more then 315.

    Basically in the past they used a more dense passenger per sqm measurement and now use a less dense passenger per sqm measurement.

    Of course this is all just stats, it doesn't really change the true capacity of the trams.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭scrabtom


    I'd like to know how many people are on some of the Red Line Luas's I get on at Museum going in to town on a weekday morning or a Saturday Afternoon.

    I bet it's a fair bit more than 358.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, the above numbers are supposed to be "comfortable" capacity. You can then have a higher crush capacity. I'd love to see peak time numbers from the NTA on different vehicle types, double decker buses, VT class, trams, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 160 ✭✭OisinCooke


    I really really like this, especially the branch from Ballyboden over to Sandyford for a Metro and GL interchange, it could even be extended either side to Templeogue and Kimage, and out to the DART on the east and form a Luas southern orbital?

    However while I think your route from Tallaght to town is really solid, I almost think that it should be our next candidate for a Metrolink Line 2, rather than a street running tram. It can also continue out through the city core and into other unserved areas of the northside - hell, you could even amalgamate the Luas Balgriffin route and kill two birds with the one metro line?

    I also quite like this as an option, I’ve never thought about it before, you’d get a Red Line link at Busáras and you’d also get (potentially) a Lucan Line link at Ringsend. Could even head down through Sandymount too and hit the DART somewhere too.

    Only issue is you’d miss the Green Line and the metro as well as most of the city centre requiring commuters to change. A direct line into (and ideally through the CC) would be definitely preferable… I do wonder what TFI’s plan is with regards to Luas Balgriffin as soon as it hits Connolly…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,953 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yeah I think the section from Ballyboden roundabout into the CC should be metro as it’s taking the capacity from the leg heading out to sandyford and the leg from tallaght.

    You could also extend northwards from tallaght up cookstown way towards clondalkin Fonthill heavy rail station and that way you’d be serving the new seven mills development and linking it to tallaght etc.

    further north it could continue to up the R113 and serve Liffey valley.

    So it could be developed into an orbital route of sorts also.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,312 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Only issue is you’d miss the Green Line and the metro as well as most of the city centre requiring commuters to change. 

    Not quite, south of Connolly I envisaged it heading west to cross the Liffey just west of the Loop Line bridge and then down Tara St. A station at the junction of Tara and Pearse St would be within spitting distance of the College Green stop on the Green line.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 160 ✭✭OisinCooke


    Was just at Heuston the other day and was looking at the middle terminating Luas platform. Just wondering if Luas Lucan was built, if they continued the track from the central platform to rejoin the two running lines on the south side of the station, current Connolly to Heuston trams could be continued out to Lucan/in towards the south city centre creating more connectivity.

    And even during peak times, or even only, there could be the odd Lucan or Stephen’s Green/College Green (whichever route they choose) to Heuston service to again, improve connectivity. Is this a likely thing they’d do? Seems like not a lot of work required (just two points at the south end of the Heuston platforms and two more at the junction with the Lucan and Red line at James’ to create a triangle junction allowing trams to continue into town) and would have a good payoff in providing what would be a very useful and doable service. Any thoughts?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭gjim


    The red line is at its capacity limit between Hueston and the centre as it is.

    For every tram you run Connolly to/from Lucan, would mean removing a tram Connolly to/from Tallaght/Citywest. So halving the capacity of an existing 15km alignment between Hueston and Tallaght/Citywest. This is not a good way to spend money on infrastructure.

    And no amount of fiddling around with shuttle services can fix this: feeding two tram lines (Lucan and Tallaght) into a single section which is already at capacity in terms of trams per hour and passengers per tram at peak.

    We need more capacity into and through the core, not more branches feeding into a single already congested/at capacity core alignment.

    Any new Luas alignment coming from that direction needs to go through the centre of the city (in this case say via Thomas St, Dame St, Pearse St) to avoid canabalising earlier investment in tram infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,091 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Yep, no more half measures.

    There’s a need to bite the bullet for politicians on more city centre capacity.

    Sadly, that requires leadership.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,556 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Dart underground, that's what's needed... its bend comprehension, with housing, climate and just in general the absolute disgrace, that is public transport on this country, how little is being done ...



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