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Election to be called Fri - predict outcome

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,017 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    FF only have one customer - FG.

    They would be run out of town for going back to the polls over putting sole Taoiseachs office over the needs of the country. Arrogance written all over that one.

    In fact I think we could have rotating Taoiseach forever more.

    If we have 3 parties on say 40/30/20 seats they would all get Taoiseach at some point in the term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭Caquas


    If it came to the crunch (which it won't) i.e. if the Dáil failed to elect a Taoiseach at its first session, MM would simply tell the Dáil that as the candidate with the most votes he is trying to form a government which reflects the will of Dáil Éireann and is willing to negotiate on any reasonable demands from suitable coalition partners. That leaves SM trying to explain why he is insisting on something that no junior coalition party has ever demanded anywhere else in the democratic world. Something which is personal to him. Something for which he has no mandate from the people. Something which will not benefit the Irish people in any way. Something which creates administrative confusion.

    Cue the next opinion poll and SH will change his mind pronto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,017 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Fantasy eh? That's because the government have been glacially slow in implementing it.

    The Sláintecare Report was published in 2017 by the Committee on the Future of Healthcare.

    In August 2018, the then-government published the Sláintecare Implementation Strategy (SIS), which set out a 10-year framework for the implementation of key reforms to the healthcare system.

    September 2021 - Laura Magahy resigned her position as executive director of SIAC. In her resignation letter, she cited slow progress in three key areas of the Sláintecare reform: the regional health areas; eHealth, and waiting lists.

    September 2021 - Dr Tom Keane, the chair also stepped down, stating that “the requirements for implementing this unprecedented programme for change are seriously lacking.”

    September 2021 - Professor Anthony O’Connor also stepped down from SIAC. In his resignation letter, O’Connor said that “fundamental failures of governance, accountability and commitment continue to make any chance of success impossible. It is now clear to me that the culture of collaboration, respect, community and engagement that had been envisaged by the Sláintecare report has been bulldozed. What has been chosen by Government to replace it is entirely incongruous with the principles of the project.”

    I know, FFG can blame Stephen Donnelly now.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,905 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Yes but when PBP decided to run 42 candidates they didn't know the electorate would opt to put FFG back in



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    You won't.

    Your deluded.

    No politician or political commentator anywhere is suggesting FF will be solo Taoiseach for the next term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Agreed.

    Sinn Fein could be a potential coalition partner for an alliance of the Left, or preferably, a merged Labour and SDs but is too different and nativist to be a part of a Left Alliance.

    Here is an interesting perspective:

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2024/12/02/new-opportunities-for-all-ireland-centre-left-politics-after-the-2024-dail-election/

    "Should the new Dublin government exclude Labour and the Social Democrats, those two parties will share that exclusionary position with the SDLP. This gives these three parties a unique opportunity to dramatically transform politics on this island, untrammelled by the shackles of governing. There are no substantive political differences – apart from the obvious jurisdictionally-induced complexities – between these three centre-left parties. More importantly, they all desire a peacefully-achieved pluralist reunified island. They are not perceived as having any association with violence. SD, L, and SDLP …. even the names are similar."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭Geuze




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You assume that MM will be able to play it that way. There will be a rotating Taoiseach, FF won't let that stand in the way.

    Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed is the mantra of coalition negotiation. SH and FG will be claiming other reasons for the breakdown, that something FF want in the programme is a SF idea so he is letting them off to chat there.

    You also assume that the Irish voter is rational and will see it the way you paint.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,302 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    It couldn't be 50k per year.

    It must be 10k per year.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yes, and I think the original target was 2030, but Covid has knocked that back quite a bit. If I remember an article I read, new target date is 2035.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,886 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Why is it that everyone is urging other parties to merge? It usually comes from people who disagree with them too… SF and the wider left constantly at FF & FG to merge. FF/FG supporters saying same about Soc Dems & Labour.

    I have no problem with parties that are very similar but different enough (either in their own minds or in the view of the public) that they elect to stay similar PROVIDED they work with each other on common platforms when appropriate. The benefits of PR-STV means that, in general, the support will remain within the broad scope of the parties (so Labour transfer to Soc Dems; FF to FG). And it keeps the respective parties larger than a combined group (there are FG people who will never vote for FF but are happy to share power with them. If they merged would they be as happy?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    On SC, if the will was really there, it could be implemented long before that. But there are bigger priorities right now anyway



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Too big a change, can't be done in a shorter timeframe. Plus tax rises necessary, you can't increase them overnight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,513 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    They are being urged to 'admit' they have merged because to all intents and purposes they have. Nobody is buying the pretence anymore. When their supporters here are saying 'sure the electorate knew what they are voting for' the game is up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    No, not talking overnight, but this could be implemented in the next 6 years, no need to be pushing it out to 2035.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    There is a mandate though. FF and FG got almost the exact same amount of first preference votes.

    It was also FG transfers that got a lot of FF candidates over the line.

    The people have voted for a continuation of FFG.

    There is zero chance of FF risking 48 seats over this. People would just flood to SF / SD / Lab who would lap it up.

    You are deluded.

    Not only that but you are wrong about FF having a majority in cabinet. That won't be happening either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    You do realise that housing is a totally different department of government?

    And government can do more than 1 thing at a time?

    There is no excuse for slaintecare to be so far off target



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,972 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I cannot see any way that FG would accept MM being Taoiseach for the lifetime of the government. That really would solidify their status as junior partner…..something that could very well have dire long term consequences for them as a party.

    Either they rotate the Taoiseach evenly and give FF more ministries or they split the ministries and give Martin 3 years as Taoiseach.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    I'm not worried in the slightest- there is more chance of the developers working for no profit than there is of the left sticking together😂

    Found a clip of the current round of negotiations:

    ##Mod Snip##

    No Memes/comedy clips

    Post edited by Quin_Dub on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    See that's the problem Timmy, you'd think regardless of it being seperate departments that they could do both, but you can be sure, whether that be financial constraints, or just the lack of will on their part, that both wouldn't be prioritised. They have made a mess of a solitary hospital, so i'd rather they focused on getting one priority done at a time, if indeed that means they get housing fixed



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Eh, Covid devastated health systems across the world, ours has actually managed to recover fairly well.

    Slaintecare can't be implemented in five years, transformation costs money, apart from the fact that no health system ever in the world has been able to facilitate unlimited demand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No idea.

    Especially when their co-founder Roisin Shortall, the chair of the committee that published the reoprt on Slaintecare, ran a mile from doing anything about it 4 years ago when she was offered the opportunity during talks to form a government then.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,886 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    But that's simply not true. They are separate parties with similar policies and who will likely form governments into the future. But they are separate parties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The only people urging FF and FG to merge are SF supporters because they believe that will be an advantage to SF.

    No serious pundits are saying it today. All we are hearing about is that Labour and SDs should merge and that SF need to go back to the drawing board after their terrible performance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 15,017 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The original target date was 2028. A 10 year implementation plan. Like the children's hospital it will slip and slip and slip. It probably will never get done. Hence all the resignations.

    The health region move alone has taken 6 years and is really only starting. Glacially slow and you cannot blame party change.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    FF and FG have shown the benefits of not merging.

    The leaders debate for example 2 against 1.

    Very unfair when 2 of the parties are so aligned.

    Loads of candidates everywhere pretending to be not the same.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,052 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Not a notion. If they were serious in any way they would have been talking for the past 4 years. Despite all that's gone on the last 4 years the incumbents still go into government. FF and FG aren't begging a third party. They'll pull together a few independents.

    I'd reckon SF, had they any cop on and not having been distracted by their only internal issues should have been talking to other parties for the last few years and giving the electorate something concrete to vote on.....



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