The decline of FG?

So you agree, the rise of SF has caused a change in the political dynamic here. I.E. The tacit merger of FF and FG

Of course they will listen, adjust and change their offering, that is what I expect a proper political party to do. Would you rather they dig in and remain the same?

I didn't handwave it away. I explained to you why it happened.

Power has swapped between FG and FF and they should be properly accountable for that record, not just allowed to thump their chests on the good bits. Which they were allowed to do.

Regardless of your myopia on why it happened, FG and FF are still and should be as accountable for all that happened in those 100 years as SF are.
The fact is, while SF were asked to account for their past, the reps of the two parties whom power swapped between were allowed to thump their chests on that record. MM in particular.

Yes, myopia.

If you cannot accept that what was going on with Irish people in Ireland consumed SF for a part of the 100 years, that's on you.

I think there are many people still crying real tears about the wrongs of FF and FG over the century. Your myopia allows you to criticise SF for the wrongs they did (and that criticism is warranted in a lot of cases) but give FF and FG a pass. Own it.

It is amazing to see how desperately the SF posters on here try to spin that MM will change his mind.

If they need the hand-holding of MM to form a government, and can't make it on their own when the numbers are adding up for them, they really aren't ready for government.

Crocodile tears

SF didn't even put themselves forward with electable policies,nevermind be around to make mistakes in government

Ergo,they or you are in no position to finger wave at those who did man up to governmental responsibility during SF's 80+ years of abstention & unelectability

Where were SF during this period?

Why were they not in the top three parties being elected until recently?

It is not about SF and where they where or weren't.
If SF never existed they should be held accountable for ALL they did, not just the good bits.

Are you prepared to condemn SF in the same manner for the wrongs they presided over (in NI) and the wrongs they actually committed?

I never agreed with any of the violence including that of the IRA.
I didn't vote for SF until I was satisfied that they had fulfilled the commitments they made in the GFA. What I didn't do was set glass ceilings for them and actually told local reps at the time they would get a vote from me when I was satisfied.

If you " struck FG off the list of possible choices" because Fergus Finlay told you that Alan Shatter failed to "investigate serious [whisteblower] allegations even-handedly, rather than act as Judge and Jury", then you must have been asleep for the past eight years. Or perhaps you are quoting Finlay's nonsense for other purposes and you actually understand the real meaning for FG of Shatter's demise and vindication?

Shatter was exonerated in 2016 by the O'Higgins Inquiry for his role in responding to the Garda whistleblower scandal (and the subsequent Charlton Tribunal supported that conclusion). Nonetheless, when he tried to clear his name, the Government fought him all the way to the Supreme Court but lost every round in the courts. Uniquely in the modern era, he couldn't get an apology from the Government even when the injustice was beyond dispute, including from his former FG colleagues in Government.

The Irish Times recently tried to whitewash the role of Sean Guerin SC (now Chair of the Bar Council) whose travesty of a report condemned Shatter without hearing from him so Shatter stuck the boot in today. Not least because he hopes to win back the seat he lost in 2016 while various lies about him were still widespread in the media (and live on here on Boards).

Yes, I know lots of people blame Shatter for the closure of Garda stations. And he had no shortage of enemies, often those closest to him. But on the Garda Whistleblowers - which is the only charge Finlay makes - he was another victim, not a villain, of the most politically toxic scandals in our modern history.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/2024/11/27/alan-shatter-and-the-guerin-report/

They say it but who believes them?

Without much difficulty in talks, they'll do it.

Martin be gone either way shortly.

Any logical minded person would believe them.

MM is saying it daily, I dont see him budging his position. They are fundamentally opposed.

They arent fundamentally opposed to Labour. There are some concessions FFG could make to Soc Dems or Labour, but without compromising on core policies on housing and health or the economy.

I wouldnt rule out FFG + Independent Ireland either.

I read all that and I’m astounded that you think it gets you off the hook for quoting Finlay’s BS about Shatter.

What hook? 😁

Alan Shatter takes up a couple sentences in that piece. Read it again.

FFS the altering again. Read the post properly.

Alan Shatter is innocent. OK? Now read the rest of it and the bit I picked out.