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SPHE Teacher's Interview - What Happens in the Classroom... - Mod Note Added to OP PLEASE READ

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    It pains me greatly to hear these supposed "progressive" people use the phrase (seen in this very thread) "identify as gay".

    I thought we had moved on from thinking being gay was a "phase" - how offensive.

    You can "identify" as whatever you want, you will be respected but facts will not change. But lose the homophobia that being gay is somehow a choice, a preference or something you believe is your "identity". It is innate.

    This is why LGB people and allies need to reclaim the movement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Again I ask, how did you work that out? You seem to repeatedly position your own ill informed opinions as fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The gay people will be in the same classroom as the kids, not in a different house down the road.

    What negative outcomes result from talking to kids about the existence of trans people and gay people? What specifically are you afraid of?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Ehh — and parents don't follow an ideological blueprint of their own? The idea that you would somehow teach your children about sex in a manner which is entirely free of any ideological blueprint of your own sounds like a bit of a self-serving fantasy to be honest.

    The problem with leaving sexual education entirely to parents is that — like homeschooling of any form (see Burkes of Castlebar for an extreme example) — the children are learning about this complex topic in a bubble which is tightly controlled and therefore influenced entirely by the whims of their own parents. In classroom learning, while ideological influence is always at play in any form of social education, there's at least a normalisation of talking about these topics in a wider peer group which lends better to the complex nature of sexuality. And ultimately, nobody is stopping parents from also teaching sexual education — but I dare say that if we lived in a society where it was left solely to parents, we would not be better off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    If you read over my post again, I said if a gay couple were living down the street and our kids asked , we would answer questions but would not subject them to an activist style lecture , what's so terrible about that ?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    No kids in the school ours attend have two daddies or mammies



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Observing the details in front of me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    I oppose lot's of things that I'm not afraid of, I'm not afraid of the Irish green party but I don't want their manifesto taught in school



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Well surely parents have a stronger inalienable right to teach their children things which the state do not have?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    My point stands, not every parent is equipped to discuss LGBT issues and plenty are simply passing on their own bigotry. The very fact you're labeling discussing homosexuality in the classroom as politicising says plenty. On top of that, there are children who have same sex parents but your logic would be effectively to ignore this entirely. Children can even start to recognize they're gay in childhood so by avoiding mentioning it in the classroom, it's not good for them either.

    The alternative is they'll learn about LGBT people from TV shows or movies. That's not politicization btw, it's just that LGBT people exist all around us.

    Btw, gay was frequently used as an insult when I was in primary school. I'm guessing most children of my era and earlier were first exposed to the concept of gay people was actually homophobia. That was a major thing because we avoided talking about certain topics. But better not to mention it, eh?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    LGBTQ is an ideological term, the difference between you and I is you believe the authority of the state ( when it comes to instilling values )trumps the family, that is grotesque to me



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The only reason the term is remotely political is because we historically limited their rights. We treated them as criminals, ignored crimes against them and expected them to remain closeted. By your logic, any group associated with a civil rights movement should be avoided cause they're inherently political.

    I'd dread to think of how you handled a same sex couple marrying in your family. Clearly it would be too politicised to do such a thing. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Actually many gay people disassociate themselves from the term,they don't wish to be lumped in under an ideological umbrella, it's a collectivist term within the identity politics space



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,281 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Remember folks, as humans there are two genders, two sexes

    Remember folks, there are ignorant people who will insist they know the facts, when they're demonstrably wrong.

    Just for starters, and only considering physical biology, approximately 1% of the population is intersex, to some degree or other. There are people born with XX chromosomes, and there are people born with XY chromosomes, and then there are people born with XXY or XYY. ~ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/ https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/biological-sex-and-gender-united-states#:~:text=Individuals%20identified%20as%20males%20tend,develop%20a%20mix%20of%20characteristics.

    That's before you even start thinking about culture (many cultures have recognised and celebrated more than two genders, for centuries), or gender dysphoria.

    Ultimately, the SPHE curriculum is about teaching kids to teach others with respect. It's a pity some parents here think that's somehow a bad idea.

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    A minority at most. You view discussing homosexuality in the classroom as politicisation, that was your original nonsensical claim btw.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What's so terrible about providing them with information about the people in their classroom?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Ho

    How do you know, given that there are no gay people in your world?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Again I ask, how do you know, given that both parents don't always attend at the school gate?

    What has the SPHE curriculum got to do with the Green Party?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    But who is actually proposing to deprive parents of that right? You can teach your children whatever you want about sex and parents will always tend to have a much more powerful influence over their young children than teachers.

    It's interesting though that the focal point of your post is parents though, rather than children. We seem to be talking here about the rights of parents to educate their children in preference to schools, rather than actually focusing on the children themselves and what benefits may be inherent to them in receiving broader group-based sexual education.

    I'm sure there are many parents out there who would deal wonderfully with teaching their children sexual education, in a manner which actually reflects the complexity, reality and indeed plurality of the many ways sexuality actually unfolds in a person's lifetime. But then again there are many parents who would simply reimpose the fears of sexuality and repressed attitudes that were imposed on them — and I do not think that leads to a healthy societal understanding of sex and sexuality.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    "Also based on the postings of some posters who have been in this thread, not all parents are actually equipped to educate their children on anything LGBT related"

    Wow.

    I guess you are right, all children should be indoctrinated to accept whatever the cultural norm is rather than critically think. It's not as if that ever had any issues previously. Children's brains aren't sponges. Ignore your parents, what I tell you is right. It's our little secret.

    /s

    Looks like LGBTQ+ is the new catholic church.

    Yes there are bad parents, but that doesn't give the government or schools free reign to fill children full of **** too against their parent's wishes. Gender ideology is not something that has any place in school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,352 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The existence of trans people is not a cultural norm. It's just recognising that trans people exist. What are you afraid of?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    I'm not sure how you square up the point around "critical thinking" with the apparent parallel point around it all best being left to parents. If a topic is kept purely to parental-based learning, the "critical thinking" element is only as strong as the parents' abilities to actually encourage critical thought.

    Even by what you say there about "filling children full of sh*t" — well — it doesn't sound like if you were the sole dispenser of education to your children on this topic you'd be teaching them to think critically about it at all. It sounds more like you would either just tell them it's a load of sh*t or you would just avoid the topic completely if you could. That's not critical thinking.

    I mean — if critical thinking skills is a priority for you, then is it not the ideal scenario that children learn about the topic at school and then you teach them some alternative viewpoint thus presenting them with an actual balance point between two ways of looking at an issue?



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    I am not afraid of anything (spiders and heights excluded).

    The cultural norm I am referring to is that "gender" is in any way related to what being a man or a woman is. Gender is frankly a nonsense when it comes to defining a person. It is an individuals opinion about themselves. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Gender is no more important than "shy" or "extroverted". It is how the person sees themselves and is in now way indicative of WHAT they are.

    Every single person is different when it comes to personality. But every single person is a man or a woman on a biological level.



  • Site Banned Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    I teach my children to think for themselves. I am not for one minute saying that I haven't shaped their opinions with my parenting, but I have also told them that I sometimes am wrong and they should learn to take facts and base their opinions on where that takes them.

    Teaching children about gender ideology is teaching them about personality. Every one is different. If you want to teach children that everyone sees themselves differently, I will be all for it.

    Teaching children that you MUST accept and acknowledge another persons opinion about themselves as fact even though it goes against common sense and reality is dangerous and stupid. Be respectful, be kind. Thats ok. But lie? No. I teach my children not to lie.

    You should not be expected, never mind demanded, to accept someone elses version of themselves.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,948 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And if your that offended by SPHE then you're perfectly free to opt your child out. But let's be realistic, your pushing your own political agenda. The vast majority of parents aren't having conniptions over the syllabus. Meanwhile the posters who are seem to be freaked out by schools even mentioning the existence of gay people, let alone trans people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    I would provide them with information, I would instruct them to treat people with respect



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    Are you arguing that sexuality has not been politicized this past decade ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru


    It's an ideologically loaded manifesto, same as the green party election manifesto, I don't want either taught in school



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭felonious_Gru




This discussion has been closed.
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