SPHE Teacher's Interview - What Happens in the Classroom... - Mod Note Added to OP PLEASE READ

Hamsterchops

OK then, question for parents …

Two genders or seventy two?

Can a boy change into a girl?

Can a human be nonbinary?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851064#Comment_122851064

Thank you for continuing to post in this manner.

With every post, you are making the argument for why this information needs to be available and delivered as a part of the SPHE curriculum, even stronger.

Well done.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851136#Comment_122851136

…thing is Ezeoul, I have children in school, and so far they've been taught normal biological facts, then this New SPHE book comes along and they're being faced with something they've never seen before, and it's also something we don't agree with either (being taught to kids).

Yes of course adults can live as they like and adopt or believe in any religion or ideology, but teahing kids about an unfounded belief that MUST be believed (above all other beliefs) is what's upsetting us. I don't mind if the person on the bus beside me is trans, I could quite easily strike up a friendly conversation with them, but its the indoctrination of children (being born in the wrong body etc) that I do not agree with.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851154#Comment_122851154

Then opt your kids out. End of problem, for you.

But stop trying to interfere in the education of children other than your own.

Hamsterchops

Excuse me but the indoctrination of my kids or any other children is not acceptable, and anyway I have no control as to what other parents do, but I will not accept the new ideology without a fight (a battle of words). What gives you the high moral ground anyway? How an I interfering by posting my opinions.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851093#Comment_122851093

Having met trans people including trans children beats your ideology hands down. What is it about acknowledging the existence of trans people that makes you feel so threatened?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851172#Comment_122851172

Why do you insist on ignoring the fact that trans people exist. It is also the law in this country to allow those who identify as a different gender, to do exactly that.

Quantum Erasure

I wonder how it's being taught, is it 'boys can be girls' and that's it, or is the reality of hormones and surgeries and, well, the nitty gritty of 'how the sausage is made', so to speak …

felonious_Gru

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122838353#Comment_122838353

No more necessary than any mention of albinos or people with webbed feet , most people will never encounter someone with that kind of profile so I see no urgency in educating kids about it

By all means teach it in a sociology class in third level

Think of it as elective surgery rather than emergency, primary school should be the nuts and bolts learning

felonious_Gru

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851064#Comment_122851064

Most parents ( myself included ) don't want kids education politicized, we ourselves teach our kids to treat others respectfully but leave politics until University

aero2k

Just to get back to the OP. I watched some of the video, and the teacher seemed pleasant, if a bit innocent. I got the impression that she found the material personally shocking. I'd never heard of the Natural Womens Council before - they do seem to have an agenda.

That said, it appears the teacher called in to Newstalk when Norma Foley was on, and wanted to present her side of the debate. She was rebuffed and Ciaran Cuddihy dismissed the whole thing as disinformation. The Natural Womens Council have complained to Commisiún na Meán. Surely it would have been better to hear the teacher and let her answer for herself?

Just on the subject matter, I obviously haven't any insight into the DCU course, but it does seem like a good idea for SPHE teachers to be well prepared for the inevitable provocative classroom questions, designed to embarrass teachers. In our day masturbation or gay sex was enough to guarantee a stuttering answer, it's safe to say the ante has been upped considerably since then😀.

aero2k

I agree with OEJ on the neutrality, or lack of it. Very difficult to achieve for non technical subjects, though.

On the subject of trans purely as it relates to the SPHE curriculum, it does seem like a suitable topic if it's presented as a basis for debate rather than as dogma. Another poster has stated that gender is separate from sex: students could be asked to explore what this really means: if gender is indeed a social construct, then how does the concept of "born in the wrong body" arise, and what are the behaviours and presentations associated with the various genders; why are drugs and/or surgery advocated, and the pros and cons of these; the value or otherwise of gender stereotypes; the coincidence of gender dysphoria and other emotional distress (neurodivergence, sexual orientation); why the recent rise in gender dysphoria seems to be heavily weighted towards the female sex; whether or not gender ideology is sexist in that female puberty generally appears earlier than boys, so medical treatment is inherently directed towards younger people, with all that entails; why this phenomenon doesn't appear to be happening in non-western countries; why, after a few decades of those in authority trying to help young people be accepting of their bodies and not feeling that they have to conform to some idea of physical perfection, we have decided to affirm youngsters in their idea that they have been born in the wrong body; if we should unquestioningly accept medical advice from people whos' lucrative income stream depends on our acceptance…etc, etc.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851993#Comment_122851993

Presenting it as a topic to debate in the classroom? That would hardly be appropriate, particularly when the class potentially has trans students.

I'm terms of the reference to it not happening in non Western countries, it's often been historically in the likes of Asia and some African nations.

aero2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852107#Comment_122852107

Presenting it as a topic to debate in the classroom? That would hardly be appropriate, particularly when the class potentially has trans students.

Maybe - I probably should have used the word "discussion" rather than "debate". Surely the the same argument would therefore apply to sexuality, mental health, cancer…..anyway I was thinking of it as a useful way to develop critical thinking skills and logical reasoning. It could even be used to discuss the idea of "no debate".

In terms of the reference to it not happening in non Western countries, it's often been historically in the likes of Asia and some African nations.

Indeed, most of us have heard of ladyboys etc, but I was referring to the sudden recent rise in gender dysphoria, mainly among teen girls, which seems confined to the English speaking world.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851737#Comment_122851737

Unless they live the life of a hermit on Rockall, they will almost certainly encounter transgender children in their school and other transgender people in their circles.
From https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11113-023-09807-w
" Just over 1% of young people identify as transgender or describe their gender as other. "
So in any school of more than 100 students, they're going to find at least one transgender student.
And yes, wouldn't it be great to educate kids on dealing with people with all kinds of disabilities, a basic life skill.

felonious_Gru

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851993#Comment_122851993

Philosophy debates aren't for primary school kids

felonious_Gru

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852155#Comment_122852155

That's a claim,not a fact , there are about two hundred and fifty students in my kids primary school, none are " trans "

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122842586#Comment_122842586

I would say that is not true.

I'm pretty sure that the VAST majority of people would be able to tell.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122851129#Comment_122851129

Two

No

No

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852171#Comment_122852171

What isn't true?

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852165#Comment_122852165

How do you know?

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852177#Comment_122852177

Your claim that I wouldn't be able to determine the sex of the fiance of your friend's daughter by looking at them.

I don't believe that is true.

felonious_Gru

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852179#Comment_122852179

Because I live in a part of the country where something remotely out of the ordinary becomes public knowledge by lunchtime

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852179#Comment_122852179

Well I guess they can't safely say that they also aren't also murderers. Can't say for sure.

So we can just chalk it up that they are potentially murderers. Despite no evidence to say they are.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852187#Comment_122852187

Don't believe it all you want. I know it's true. So what anyway? They are non binary.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852165#Comment_122852165

How do you know?

felonious_Gru

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852210#Comment_122852210

I already answered the same question from another poster

Yvonne007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852201#Comment_122852201

Anecdote all you like. He or she is a man or a woman and the vast majority of people would likely be able to tell. Their "gender" doesn't change that.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852191#Comment_122852191

Have you missed the fact that trans people and indeed gay people are often not comfortable to be open about their status, often because of exactly the kind of gossipy culture you subscribe to?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122852155#Comment_122852155

Ya, the albino reference is somewhat ironic. Cause I did go to school with a person with albinism. They were bullied throughout school and I remember in a class they spoke about their experience and mistreatment. In retrospect, being generally educated on not being a dick over such conditions etc would have gone a long way.

So yes, I think educating students on things like this would be great. The reality is school is as much for preparing you for teenage life as the years that follow. I can think of plenty of people who left secondary school and held some pretty horrible views about LGBT people. The less of that the better imho.