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Dispute with mod

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Why you think X will win is an opinion ultimately.

    Stating as one of the reasons to back that up a percentage from a poll, or voter registrations or whatever metric is different. That is a statement of fact. You should provide a source for it. They may be misrepresenting the poll either deliberately or through misunderstanding, or the information may be out of date.
    And if you have taken an excerpt of it from another source that should be attributed with a link as per the copyright guidelines I provided from previous Feedback thread.
    This also allows other posters to assess the source information for themselves. Otherwise, what happens is threads get into mini derailments as posters query the source of the claim etc.

    If the Boards guidelines have changed with regard to fair use, or the link I provided is outdated - it would be good to get clarification on that.

    Because this was always my understanding of fair use both on boards and elsewhere on social media:

    Copy and pasting a full piece of an article from a newspaper or blog etc will not be allowed. You may copy a paragraph of the piece and must provide a link to the source under what we hope will be seen as a common sense and fair use approach.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    “Why you think X will win is an opinion ultimately. 

    Stating as one of the reasons to back that up a percentage from a poll, or voter registrations or whatever metric is different. That is a statement of fact. You should provide a source for it. They may be misrepresenting the poll either deliberately or through misunderstanding, or the information may be out of date.”

    Yeah no argument with that in general terms - but I’d hate to see every second post as just links with commentary - it kills “discussion” - remember, in the election thread there was no right or wrong simply because no one could accurately predict the outcome from a factual or data perspective - it got to the stage of “my data’s better brighter and bigger than yours and my sources are impeccable” - who wants to listen to that b0ll0x?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭Yvonne007


    Lol.

    "It's debatable that the rules are working well"

    "No it's not"

    Kinda sounds like it is.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,432 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    OK I'll bite - how is CA worse now compared to how it was in the recent past? Because if it's not, then the new rules have meant an incremental improvement (however small)



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,550 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    The new rules were brought in to make life easier for the moderators.

    The new rules are working.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I’d correct that a bit


    - bringing in “moderation” has actually helped because we were starved of proper interventions by moderators for a very long time -


    the “rules” are supposed to be followed by all - but that wasn’t happening- and the people who needed to get warnings, weren’t getting them -and that’s coming from someone who’s next “warning” will likely be 1 month ban -


    you can’t tell me that people acting a dick on threads like the US election were getting warnings and bans- because they just weren’t -


    Ive been around boards long enough to know what would have been labelled “dick” behaviour in the past - and moderation interventions just didn’t happen for that behaviour on those threads - if I acted like some posters did before the new moderation came in, I’d be site banned.


    It’s only recently I’m starting to see posts such as “ I got warned for “x” or you actually don’t see a prolific poster posting for a few days and you realise, ah ok, bans are finally been given out here .


    But that didn’t happen for a very long time - there were perfectly good existing rules / but they weren’t implemented in a way they once were



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    To summarise my recent posts here.

    Reduction in re-reg trolls good.

    Clear ground rules on threads - good. I dont agree with all of them but as a concept good.

    For the worse:

    Increase in statements of fact being made without evidence, is a carte blanche to spread fake news. Maybe my perception is off but previously this was frowned upon.

    Lifting of thread bans sees a lot of the same behaviour from those posters that led to the thread ban.

    Increase in lifting of excepts from copyrighted sources without link provided. This appears to breach Boards fair use guidelines and is poor for threads as posters cannot assess the excerpt in context and leads to questions about the actual source that should be unneccessary.

    I can provide examples by DM on request as based on forum charter this is not place to directly references other posters.

    Future Concern:

    Concern that warnings that are unappealable do not expire. I think given mod capacity is limited the shortcutting of DRP makes sense but in light of that the warnings should be time limited to 1 or 2 years and then expire. There is a higher chance of warnings issued incorrectly given the lack of appeal. Otherwise it has potential for disproportinately impacts long running posters who dont rereg.

    This is the current warnings scale, prior warnings never fully expire but count towards future ones:

    The warnings scale-

    1. 1st warning = 1 day ban
    2. 2nd warning = 3 day ban
    3. 3rd warning = 1 week ban
    4. 4th warning = 1 month ban
    5. 5th warning = 2 month ban
    6. 6th warning = 3 month ban
    7. 7th warning = 6 month ban (can be appealed)
    8. 8th warning = Permanent ban (can be appealed)
    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    I don’t relate to much of your post as simply it’s going way too deep into the weeds of references and whatnot and that’s just going to kill the site completely .If we’re going down the road of “fake news” I mean, how the feic can a mod moderate that and more importantly why the feic should they? If there s a balanced crowd on the thread and it’s not an echo chamber like some of the election threads were 2-3 months ago then that just won’t happen - the “crowd” will kill it


    In terms of expiration of bans to years - that just brings mediocrity - no one will say anything contentious for fear of a ban - it’s as simple as that - I’m not going to stick my neck out on a CA thread as simply a ban could come for any trivial reason - and if your idea on references on threads is implemented then sorry it’s no longer a discussion site where people state their “opinions” / so reckon most people will just leave it to you

    if it’s one thing we learned over the last 3 months is that listening to absolute rubbish day in day out from some posters unfettered and unmoderated is the last thing we want on this site



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There's currently no time limits on the cumulative warnings on CA. It had automatic penalties that ratchet up X days after 1st, 2nd, 3rd offence etc

    My point is that after 1 or 2 years the warnings should expire and not have a cumulative effect permanently. Otherwise it discriminates against long running posters over reregs. Do you want a warning you received 3 years ago to trigger a month ban now?

    At the moment there appears to be nothing to stop posters excerpting paragraphs of copyrighted material into posts. It is happening. As per previous copyright guidelines on boards those excepts should be attributed with a link. Your issue appears to be with the excerpts themselves, if so, Im not aware of any prior or current boards rules against that - I will leave that with you so.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Whilst we have different focus, and don’t agree on too much, we’re likely agreed on one thing - unexpired bans over time are not good for boards overall .

    It will certainly bring in re-regs who wouldn’t normally have done so - it will also bring in very “sanitised” debate.

    I’ve only ever asked for a level playing field- I’m seen now (over the last month) that moderation is greatly improved and much more even handed - but that’s come at a price and me heading for a 1 month ban on the next warning - and others too.

    It just means many won’t participate/ debates will stagnant echo chambers and “bravery” will be treated as thread spoiling uncivil and whatever other absolute rubbish that’s in that dropdown menu before a mod sends another warning out - just as it was throughout the election



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,989 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Expired bans aren't much use. Actions have consequences. Dont want to be banned dont collect warnings like Pokemon Cards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Posters don't even get notified for a "thanks". Since when did it become a problem?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 340 ✭✭ElitesTeam


    Cant appeal a warning so dumb. it just always the harris crazied mods a easy way to stop people they dont link for "link dump" yet on the same page people posting anti trump stuff with NO text its perfectly acceptable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    How long have you been posting in Current Affairs?

    One warning a year and eventually you'll be banned for 3 months, 6 months and then permanently.

    That's a far cry from collecting warnings like Pokemon Cards.

    And remember the first 6 warnings can't be appealed. Mods aren't infallible and even if they have a high batting rate of 80% or 90% that's a lot of unjust warnings over time.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    The more rubbish people who “appeared” to be “good” posters posted, the more anyone who criticised their posts were warned or targeted by moderators.

    It essentially means as long as you post pile after pile of b0ll0x and place a comment at the start, you’re “safe” - it’s not discussion it’s an echo chamber - we clearly lost an opportunity to discuss an impending and in my view a very real situation of Trump getting the presidency - all of that was knocked on the head because of mod bias -

    they got sucked in to the sh01te being posted by certain posters and everyone who disagreed was treated as a disrupter to the thread /


    despite Beastys re-write of history above, it was me that stopped the name calling of posters as “rapist sympathisers” by opening a thread on the topic - while he might have implemented a rule, I promoted that rule


    Where are the “virtuous” Harris supporters now preaching about how there’s only one “right” vote and questioning how dare we go against their righteousness by even thinking that Harris might not be doing the right thing paying millions to “celebrities” to back up her campaign



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,585 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    On the back of a single annual warning? No chance. Mods use discretion when issuing sanctions.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I'm going on what was posted on the Current Affairs forum sticky, which doesn't seem to leave much room for discretion unlike the previous more informal setup.

    The warnings scale-

    1. 1st warning = 1 day ban
    2. 2nd warning = 3 day ban
    3. 3rd warning = 1 week ban
    4. 4th warning = 1 month ban
    5. 5th warning = 2 month ban
    6. 6th warning = 3 month ban
    7. 7th warning = 6 month ban (can be appealed)
    8. 8th warning = Permanent ban (can be appealed)

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Yep- them the bans now - moderators don’t entertain the fact you can have a 1 month ban for something trivial - they say it’s down to you and your previous posting history / I got that from a mod on one of my last bans so that’s reality now



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,585 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Here’s a question for mods re: CA- where does “sense of humour “ come into posts on the CA forum these days?

    What “rules” do you have on the expression of “humour” within posts on that forum?

    Because if humour, rather than cynicism and sarcasm was promoted on the election threads, just maybe the place might have been tolerable



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    At one warning a year it'd take 8 years to get a permanent forum ban. I'd wonder will the forum be around in 8 years, or boards itself for that matter



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Ive been on Boards since 2007 so 8 years is less than half that time. Although CA has been about for less than that. I think it makes sense to raise the point now when the new rules are still bedding in and Im not posting from a position of a looming lengthy ban when it might be seen as self serving.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 792 ✭✭✭ottolwinner


    is it possible to plead a case for a sitebanned user? If so how does that go about?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    For the record I’m not posting from a “self serving” position either even though my next ban IS level 4 or whatever - just thought I’d point that out for clarity for all because your implication is very obvious



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,351 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I hope you did not interpret it as intended to imply anything with regard to any poster and that includes yourself. I have no idea of posters current warning level wrt to CA*, I was simply rolling the rules forward a couple of years to illustrate potential impact - that is the only implication I was trying to make obvious.

    (Unlike site wide warning levels where there are bars on profiles Im not aware of any visibility on CA specific ones)

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,223 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN




  • Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The new rules are ridiculous. It led to a ban in my case for a post I stand over. The discussion if you call it that with the mod led to him dismissing my claim because if it were true it would have been posted in the media and all over social media. It got so stupid that he was asking me to post the school policy verifying what I was saying .

    There wasn't even a warning given.

    If anyone calls that working , I give up.



  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,550 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Odyssey, I believe this was covered in a previous thread. I honestly don't know why you are so focused on warnings expiring. I believe you mentioned someone could be banned in 8 years due to warnings!!

    Moderators will use their discretion. Like they always do. If you received a 1 point warning in January 2024 and don't receive anything again for a year or so, the likelihood is that if you pick up another warning after a year it will be 1 point again, or maybe even zero. Depends on the post.

    Someone could be permanently banned in a week if their posting is bad enough.

    For a poster who has practically zero warnings you are very concerned with the possibility of a being banned in 8 years time.

    There doesn't have to be an expiry date on warnings. If a poster picks up enough warnings in fairly quick succession they'll eventually receive a lengthy ban If they occasionally pick up a warning here and there they are unlikely to get a lengthy ban.



  • Posts: 133 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That just leaves it down to the whim of whatever mod sees the post on the day. Not a very fair system to be leaving it to whether the mods in a good mood or had an earful from screaming kids all day and just had enough when logged in.



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  • Administrators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,550 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips




This discussion has been closed.
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