DART+ (DART Expansion)

I understand they need a lot of testing, but over a year ?

The new units look unbelievable! Got me going down a DART+ rabbit hole and I have a few queries…

Just been looking at the plans and there are a few things that concern me: At Malahide, the turnback seems completely useless, it provides no access to the Dublin bound line at all, it's merely a siding which only slews and therefore slows down the up Belfast line with an unnecessary turnout. DARTs turning back at Malahide will have to still use the up platform and cross over at the existing turnback south of the station, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me… Here's the Specific Location Plan from the DART+ Coastal North Railway Order Application, I'm overlooking something glaringly obvious. Hopefully this is a misprint or something that can be changed without change to the plans, does anyone know is it…?

https://www.dartplus.ie/S3mvc/media/DART-Coastal-North-Railway-Order/03.3%20RO%20Book%203/03%20-%20Specific%20Locations/Specific-Locations-04_Malahide-Combined.pdf

This however is on the Emerging Preferred Option page of the Website and is by far a much more ideal alignment so I am a little confused to say the least…!

The other thing is that the trackwork around Spencer Dock seems very inefficient too… Access to the Royal Canal line is limited to platforms 1 and 2 and access to the Drumcondra line is limited to platforms 3 and 4, with access to the Northern Line being limited strictly to platform 4 only with no crossovers. It really seems that a few crossovers, even a double slip or two, could be fitted in here and be very beneficial. As well as this, access from the Northern Line requires that trains entering Spencer Dock crossover at Fairview and run wrong direction as far as North Strand Jnct. (Page 5 of the plans below)

https://www.dartplus.ie/S3mvc/media/DART-West-Railway-Order/3%20Railway%20Order%20Drawings/Book%201%20%20Railway%20Works%20Plan/Book-1-Railway-Works-Plan-Part-1.pdf

I also feel that there is a missed opportunity to not reinstate the original layout at Glasnevin Jnct on top of the existing one to allow PPT trains to access the Royal Canal line but that's not a biggie I suppose.

Again, there would be a lot of space on the ramp for a crossover here. I hope that these are issues that were not required to be accurate for the plans as they are on IÉ owned land already, and may be redecided subject to a trackwork design report maybe…? Any thoughts at all guys? Maybe I'm making a bigger thing out of it than needs be but I just feel that it's a little foresighted of them…

Look at any new class of train introduced on the GB rail network and you’ll see the same.

The amount of testing on the initial set is huge.

the ROs don't always include every turnback, if any at all. I believe the Howth Junction drawings are the same, they don't include the new turnback needed for the shuttle service. The diagram you have is likely more close to what the final track will look like, although the RO show it is the northbound line that will be relocated. And the can likely be said for spencer dock access, though the Northern line still might not be able to access all 4 platforms from space restrictions.

Considering SD will only be accesible from the northern line by a single track segment, I doubt it would ever need to use more than just one platform anyways. I actually am wondering if they will send any services there in the first place.

I also believe the works to allow that at Glasnevin are meant to be a part of the new station from ML. That said it likely wont be an issue, as PPT services can and probably will be sent to SD via Drumcondra as there will be track modifications to allow for that.

FYI the down platforms on the Northern line are northbound and the up platforms are southbound!

Track layout isn’t gospel in those documents. My understanding is that the turn back siding in Malahide will be in the centre between the two lines and will allow trains exit to either platform.

It would be pointless otherwise.

Anywhere that looks like a toilet could be rammed in as a retrofit, like the Dutch had to on the SLTs?

I'd assume the batteries are taking up space for where the water/waste tanks would be anyway on the BEMUs

Ideally they shouldn't need toilets. The existing DART network doesn't have them and I don't think really needs them. However, where I could see there being a problem is after D+ electrification, if they decide to keep the BEMUs (rather than converting them back to EMUs) and use them for longer distance services, such as Dundalk, Mullingar, or Gorey. I personally hope that wont be the case, and that for longer commuter services that might need a toilet, ICRs or 29Ks would be used.

I personally think the D+ limits are getting to the limit of where a toilet isn't needed, around an hour from Connolly, Tara, and Pearse(three busiest stations). Though I think you can go a little past HH and Maynooth to Sallins and Kilcock (where they later plan to extend the DART to) and be fine. That said, I do think the DART to Wicklow town might be a stretch without speed improvements, as that will likely be about an 80 minute journey to Connolly.

Without the extension, they would have had to be withdrawn before the new DARTs are ready.

Toilets on the Maynooth line are heavily used; only Maynooth and Connolly actually have station toilets. They'll need to either add toilets to stations, or to the trains, or be used to cleaning up biohazards.

Drogheda line stations have a reasonable % with toilets; though I think they'll probably regret it for there too.

Its 6 EMU in the first order

The 20 order to replace the 8100 is a EMU, subject to funding, hoping to sign in next few months for delivery before end of 2027.

Toilets at Bray, Pearse, Connolly on the line there at least. Slightly surprised there aren't any in Dun Laoghaire.

I'd think that any station in the top 30 or so on the Rail Census should have toilets; but there's plenty that don't. Tara, Dun Laoghaire, Blackrock, Grand Canal Dock, Lansdowne Road, Malahide don't, amongst the 12 stations that have been top 10 in the last decade.

High-frequency trains don’t ever have toilets. Providing a toilet adds weight and complexity to the trains, and that means higher operating costs and less space for passengers. If you need the loo, you get out, use the one in the station, then get the next train.

The answer to this problem isn’t to add toilets to trains, it is to add toilets to the stations; that would also be a cleaner, more pleasant option for people on the trains.

Are toilets standard across Europe in such situations? I don't seem to recall seeing many toilets on London Underground lines for example.

They are not on the trains, and they are not in many of the stations, yet somehow it is a problem here?

I have a very poor bladder and have taken many a urination behind fences at Irish Rail stations.