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GAA Infastructure

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It would be very stupid of PuC to downgrade to all seater unless these games were confirmed which they wont be no matter what the Cork County board say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Can you use Rail seats in UEFA games or do you have to have permanent seats?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I read in the Irish News last week one of the storment ministers will meet the gaa over casement park saying that 70 million euro is still on the table.

    That would between the 3 funding bodys give a total of 136 million. So you could get a PUC level stadium with that or would Ulster gaa be better of using the 50 million from the irish state to build a Tullamore style stadium for Antrim and invest the rest of the 86 million in clubs and countys around ulster?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    That's good to hear. I would say spend it all on Casement. The Irish government grant would probably be greatly reduced or omitted entirely if it was to used for other purposes. They are providing it for Casement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The funding is for Casement not Antrim or Ulster GAA. You do not get to divert the funds elsewhere.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,159 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    The atmosphere and facilities in places like Thomond park,RDS,Aviva, Galway are light years ahead.

    The atmosphere is up to yourself buddy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,372 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Is the Irish government money still on the table? The Euros were one thing, but it might be hard sell giving so much to Antrim when Kildare, Louth, Meath etc are not getting as much. One basis would be as an Ulster stadium, and the Irish government could give half of the Stormont amount as they have 3 counties.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Its hard to know what is going on at the moment. Sinon Harriss said the 50 million is there but as you say other countys coukd have an issue with that.

    Than there was several media reports yesterday with different reporting. RTE saying uk will not support it until costs are known.

    The Indo saying Jarlet Burns said it was going ahead with the 30k stadium just without the bells and whistles but he also said a few weeks ago that the aim was they would build a county ground for antrim.

    An now apperently Monaghan on the back of there new video had been told money would be there for a full upgrade of clones so it could remain the home of ulster football.

    So i would say the real truth is no one knows what is going on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I can't say whether the Irish government money is still there or not. I only said that it's unlikely it would be there if the GAA wanted to transfer a large portion of it to clubs instead. But if the government is willing to help fund a road through Tyrone it's not hard to imagine they would support a stadium for the Irish national games as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Even if all previously offered funds were still available, the plans will have to be well scaled back due to the current plan costing double that amount. A new planning application will be needed which will push things out by years. Of course, by the time they clear all the hurdles, the funding committed will only pay for a much smaller stadium.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    With the election so close there won't be much clarity on anything. It will be for the new Irish government to re-affirm funding commitments. The UK government not supporting it until costs are known would make sense. But they have committed to funding it just as rugby and soccer infrastructure were funded so that will have to happen.

    I would think Burns will push for the stadium to go ahead as a 30k stadium but obviously scaled back from UEFA specs. A modern provincial stadium in Belfast would raise the profile of the game there and have more potential to raise revenue near a centre of population than in a small provincial town.

    Monaghan haven't presented any costings for Clones to date so that project is very much up in the air at present.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The UK government didn't fund Ravenhill or Windsor, that was the NI Executive who are flat broke. The UK government also hasn't committed to funding Casement, the opposite in fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    The NI Executive only debate projects and where money goes but getting the money will be down to the UK government and Treasury. How would that be the opposite of what I said?

    Hilary Benn has been the one setting out what will and won't be funded so far. He ruled out the Casement Euros bid due to time constraints.

    Ah sure with planning delays, inflation, scaling back, broke executive and every other moan we could think of it's probably best not to build anything in future. Maybe we all should just stay in bed every day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The UK government have not committed to funding Casement. They had the chance to fund it but declined to do so. The only reason the UK government even discussed it is Euro28 but that has passed, sports infrastructure is a devolved matter and Westminster will be telling them to fund it themselves. Hilary Benn doesn't decide what will and won't be funded.

    And no its not "probably best not to build anything in future". Things for which there is a genuine need, with a solid business case and will provide long term benefits which outweigh the costs can and should be built. Casement doesn't meet that criteria. Don't believe me, look at PUC which hosts more big games than Casement would.

    Planning delays, inflation, scaling back, broke executive aren't moaning, they have been the reality for Casement for over a decade and will continue to be for at least another few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    'Things for which there is a genuine need, with a solid business case and will provide long term benefits which outweigh the costs can and should be built. Casement doesn't meet that criteria.'

    Oh sorry I didn't realise you had carried out the CBA already and that it's been proven unviable. Please share it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    That works both ways, do you have a CBA already and it's been proven viable?

    I gave a reference case, PUC, which struggles financially yet has more big games than Casement would.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Reference case isn't a CBA. You stated that it doesn't meet the criteria for a solid business case. There's no evidence of that.

    I never claimed to have a CBA ruling it in or out. All I said that having it near Belfast would have more potential to raise revenue near a centre of population than in a small provincial town. That just plain logic, no CBA needed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Building a 30+k capacity stadium at a cost of £100m+ with the prospect of 1 big game a year is not a solid business case. Ultimately, if a large amount of taxpayers money is required (>80% of project costs) there needs to be a very compelling case to justify handing that over. It's actually insane that this level of taxpayers money is being talked about being provided.

    If there is a good case for building the stadium, Ulster GAA can proceed themselves. Croke Park know it would be a disaster to put significant money towards Casement, hence why they say they won't go beyond the initial £15m contribution. They don't want another PUC situation and Casement would have even fewer games.

    Saying a stadium near Belfast would have more potential to raise revenue than Clones is irrelevant. They aren't competing for funding and isn't a one or other choice. No comparison between the two will be made.

    Anyway, there is apparently about £120m in funding available (€62m from NIE, €50m from Irish government and £15m from GAA) so there shouldn't be any reason why it can't proceed to construction soon...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    In the article below burns is saying the costs will be alot lower as the spec will drop and the fitout will be reduced. What is he saying as such ? No museum, No handball courts, reduction in media area, Lesser food areas?

    Maybe more terraces and less covered areas?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1lgv6rg7n1o



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It isn't clear if he is talking about a new design and planning application or trying to reduce costs within the current planning permission. He says "we've taken a lot of the fitout away" but that could only account for a relatively small reduction in cost. The structure which they have planning permission for will still cost a fortune, it has a large underground parking area and circulation space. The handball court, hospitality areas, etc. would still have to be constructed, even if not fitted out at all. The proposed cladding will also be a large chunk of the cost and that can't be significantly changed without new planning. More terraces still means the stands are built as per current planning but they can't put more people onto terraces because the facilities, entrance/exit routes, etc. were designed for seated capacity.

    A complete redesign and new planning permission will be needed to significantly reduce the costs. Even then, it is still a very confined site and they'll be building right up to the boundaries so it will still be an expensive build. It'll obviously take years and meet the same planning battles as previous applications.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I would say definitely media facilities and most likely stuff like the fancy looking roof. Don't see why they would have less food areas as the capacity won't change.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    It should also be noted that the stadium as currently has planning approval was designed well before the Euro28 bid so wasn't designed around UEFA requirements. Hosting requirements pushed costs up to several hundred million but base costs without that were well over £100m without that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    The reduction in covered stand areas should be a major saving. Great to see Burns is still committed to the stadium and that it will still cater for 30k plus fans. This suggests that Ulster finals will move to Belfast. A correct decision to have a sizeable GAA stadium in the North's capital. If they can retain a certain level.of corporate facilities i can see it being used for a lot of events.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,351 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Where has it been suggested that there'll be a reduction in covered stand areas? That will involve a redesign and new planning permission which will take years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,522 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Roadmaster suggested it. I was responding to that point saying it would be a big saving if they did that. I've no idea if they will be keeping or removing parts of it. I hope they find a way to keep it.

    Whether the planning is maintained or reapplied for and takes longer the main thing is that it moves forward and is built as it will be there for generations of players and supporters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭celt262




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Talking to some Louth GAA people today i think they are ready for Louth to secede from the state they are that upset they got no funding for the dundalk stadium.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,565 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Not just Cavan.

    Dublin (€7 million), Roscommon (€5.5 million), Wexford (€3.5 million) and Clare (€3.2 million)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭celt262




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