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Missing 8yr Old Kyran Durnin - presumed dead *READ Mod Note Added to OP*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,373 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    AGS most definitely knows more about the law then you do. They can only arrest someone once in relation to a crime. And depending on what they are arrested for, there is a set amount of detention time. All evidence needs being gathered before that happens.

    Once someone becomes a suspect, they are treated differently then 'persons of interest '

    I would be very happy that Gardai knows exactly what they are doing in relation to this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,531 ✭✭✭Gusser09




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,416 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    They can only arrest someone once in relation to a crime

    They can technically arrest someone again but any new grounds to arrest again would have to be based on new evidence and presented to a Judge.

    Ian Bailey was arrested twice.

    As I understand it this is a Murder Investigation, there is a high bar to upgrade a missing person to a murder investigation.

    The Gardaí have pertinent information I wouldn't draw any inference from the lack of an arrest just yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,373 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Well exactly, this early on they would need to gather all information they have, then make an arrest. The evidence is the important part anyway. Arresting someone doesn't mean the arrested person will say anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,782 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    Is the mother still in the England and is she being monitored? If she had the means to, could she move around the world if she chose to?

    Is the granny laying low in town or out and about?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,972 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The indo headline today is saying that his name appeared on a B&B guest list last June.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭I told ya


    If the mother is in the UK, she can only be extradited for the purpose of arrest, charge and caution and then brought before the District Court. She can't be interviewed. A murder charge is common to both jurisdictions, so there should be no problem with the extradition.

    My earlier reference to 'Gerry O'Carroll style' was in relation to a poster saying everyone should be arrested and charged and whatever. Most people of a certain vintage know how that worked out on a number of occasions back in the 70s and 80s.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,534 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Without a body can they be charged for murder? At the least can they brought in for negligence?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 335 ✭✭I told ya


    In the first instance, as a parent, you have a duty of care to your children. After that the law can be, to put it mildly, strange.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2024/1025/1477527-tusla-welfare-check/

    Maybe stating the obvious, should not all children on the radar be checked, as a matter of urgency. Tusla case workers accompanied by Gardai should be all over these cases. Sod the overtime, expenses and whatnot, just get the job done.

    Whereas a case worker might be told to Foxtrot Oscar, the presence of the Gardai should, hopefully, focus the mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭CPTM


    We're obviously missing something. They're busy looking into Kyran's mother's boyfriend, probably the death of his ex 5 years ago to look at that from a different perspective, the granny and her long history whatever that may be. Where's the grandad? There's surely a reason why they haven't been arrested. There are so many different sides to it.

    They must all have a seriously strong alibi. Very strange how the media have been handled though - like a massive search for a boy and his mother. She's found and he hasn't been and then they think he's been dead for two years and no reports as to what the mother is saying or why they're not arresting her. Why can't they release that information I wonder? It would reduce the gossiping.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Have you considered that the family were likely asked questions and aren't offering any real insight?

    If the Gardai jump the gun on arresting all and sundry they risk the DPP saying there's not enough evidence to prosecute. Sometimes if you give people enough rope they will hang themselves too and I'm sure there a lot of checking needed to try to build a history of what everyone who might have been involved was doing over the last 2 years, and trying to speak to whomever they may have interacted with. It's a mammoth task.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭CPTM


    Yes, that's pretty much the exact point I was making. Unless you're referring to the point I was making around what they're communicating to the public. For example if they're getting no where with the mother, say that, at least. Don't just say she was found, not arrested and they think the boy died two years ago. Did the mother sit there in silence? Is she saying she left the kid with the granny 2 years ago? I just think if they released some more of their findings some members of the public, particularly those more local might have more to offer. But like I say, they must have their reasons. They certainly know a lot more about looking into these things than me!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    mothers have far too much power with child custody. Sickening



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,659 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Making every little operational detail public could very well compromise the investigation and they're not going to do that just to satisfy the puerile nosiness of the general public.

    Also, as LER said, there's often a large element of giving people enough rope to hang themselves with, and the drip-feed of information in investigations like this is often deliberately designed to panic those involved into doing just that.

    It will all come out in the wash. None of us have a right to know all the details right now, much as some people seem to think they do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,373 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Because AGS do not have to keep the general public updated on their investigations. It is an active investigation. There are more important things to do then give people stuff to gossip about.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Imagine you and I commit a crime. I'm questioned or have been arrested, I panic, admit to it and describe every detail. The Gardai release everything I say to the press and it's widely reported.

    You read the reports and follow all the usual sources to see what people are saying about it. With that information you could now devise a counter story, line up an alibi and possibly get away with it.

    Conversely, if I provide any false information and it is widely reported as fact by respected media outlets it could hamper the investigation. The full details are presented at a trial and anyone charged has the presumption of innocence until they are convicted.

    Post edited by Leg End Reject on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,171 ✭✭✭Ms2011


    Both the mother & grandmother are under police protection in a Drogheda B&B apparently. Supposedly been spotted out & about in Drogheda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    Its an awfully sad situation, the poor little lad. It really makes me grieve for them whenever any child is endangered in any manner. And especially if their missing and presumed murdered, the public arguably have the right to want answers and justice. Though this one is going to take some time for the authorities to figure out exactly what happened, who, how, when and where because the guilty parties have had a two year head start to try and cover their tracks. Its frustrating but that shouldn't mean that it's okay for people to result to making up lies, repeating gossip or spreading poorly thought through assumptions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,004 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    What a waste of police services.

    Hopefully the other kids have been taken somewhere safe



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Funded by the taxpayer; there is perhaps an argument to be had for the use of elements of torture to find out whatchappened



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    The public have no right to have answers in an ongoing investigation.

    Once the jury record their verdict, then we'll have our answers.

    Gardai and dpp keep their mouth shut until a feasible amount of evidence can be garnered before an arrest is made and possibly trial.

    I prefer patience than emotion.

    It's not a reality show. Let them do their job. I expect they know. Wait.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭MFPM


    No, there isn't FFS. Quite apart from the moral issues, information obtained by torture is inadmissible as evidence in most jurisdictions, and information from torture is unreliable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Jaysus. I didn't see that post!

    How do these people think?

    Logic over emotion. Facts over feelings. That's how cases are won.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭Jizique


    I said elements; LA Confidential was a cracking movie



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,135 ✭✭✭Damien360


    This is something I actually can't understand. Why have they not arrested either of them on the basis of a missing child with a view to charges. The child of that age cannot look after themselves. So either the child is hidden from the dad who has full egal rights, arrestable offence or the child is dead, also arrestable offence.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I'm sure that's necessary to stop an angry mob attacking them (and removing any chance of getting answers in the process), but it's also a very handy way to keep an eye on them and their movements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭gameoverdude


    Yes. No charges brought.

    Humans can strike out for no reason at all. Let patience win and I do believe they're just getting their ducks in a row.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,531 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Pair of horrible monsters.

    Poor little child. Rip. Rest easy.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    On Thursday morning, Garda Commissioner Drew Harris - a man with 34 years of policing experience in Northern Ireland, some of which were during The Troubles - said in all his years as a police officer, he has "never seen a set of circumstances" like those in this case.

    Commissioner Harris also added a rather chilling remark that there is a particular element to the case that is "difficult to comprehend".

    Emphasis mine, but I think it's safe to say the Gardai are busy building a case.

    And this, which seems to be standard procedure.

    However, gardaí said the results of the operation were not being released for "operational purposes".

    https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2024/1026/1477532-durnin-analysis/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,234 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    This could be a very long drawn out investigation if Gardai don’t obtain the information they need to find this boy.
    We’ve seen just months ago how the discovery eventually of a woman’s body who was reported as “missing” also , hidden in a house in cork (case ongoing) took an awful lot of investigation and years of patience before an arrest and charge took place - this case may well be similar in that without evidence of a death or indeed a killing that arrests and prosecutions won’t be any way in the near future



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