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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Writing character references for individuals are brought before the court everyday.

    Yes, and they are the subject of controversy because they are presented in an attempt to get leniency for serious crimes.

    Nobody should be writing references for either convicted abusers or those under investigation for abuse.

    If they do they should face sanction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭spillit67


    When you have the Journal continuing to write dullard “fact check” pieces like this you’d have to wonder if it will get through.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-ireland-top-country-europe-house-building-6503625-Oct2024/#:~:text=“Housing%20completions%20per%201%2C000%20population,a%20per%2Dpopulation%20basis.”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I corrected a poster on what he claimed. Nothing more.

    SF's are citing this as more waste alá the bike shed and the security hut.

    What you or I think it should cost is immaterial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i think some ffg supporters are being overly optimistic in regards housing output, thankfully supply is increasing, but….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    I would expect anyone with reasonable intelligence would know the figures were per capita, how could it be anything else.

    Being top of the list per capita is a good achievement.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The numbers are on track. Every reason to be confident.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    we ve been over this, we ll never agree, only time will truly tell, noting, current and past government housing models have been way off actual requirement, in regards housing, hence our current situation, so…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    They havent been way off projections. The aim has been too low. But I think most will agree if we can top 50k per year from 2025 onwards, that will make an impression on supply.

    There are literally new towns being built in Dublin at the moment lke Clonburris and Cherrywood.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    government projections have been no where near our requirement, and for a considerable amount of time, this is in accordance to respected commentators such a ronan lyons etc, this has been the case for many years, since pretty much the last crash, some saying our deficit is now closer to 250,000 units, best of luck with trying to achieve that in a hurry!

    and again, this is no longer a dublin centric problem, but a more serious national problem!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    If they're 'pulling out all the stops' does it really matter what the 'target' is? If say 45K houses was the absolute limit that could be built, straining every sinew, in 2025, what difference would it make if the target was 60K rather than 50K?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    there clearly needs to be targeting, since this focuses resources, and creates goals, but as you can see, ffg and their supporters have no interest in admitting their current and passed failures in this one, they want to keep projecting some sort of potential possible utopic future, which may happen, but i somehow doubt, not quickly enough anyway…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    50k is due for delivery from next year. You seem to keep ignoring that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭spillit67


    The projections were based on the ESRI.

    The issue is they were made off of 2016 Census figures to estimates as of 2020.

    Over the course of 2020, it did not look like we were heading for barnstorming migration but the mid point was taken in estimates.

    What ultimately has happened is that it looks like the high end of 2040 projections will be met long before 2030.

    33k is still actually a lot of homes as as demonstrated is leading in Europe per head. Ronan Lyons is respected but he is not infaliable. He is only as good as his assumptions and what he assumes is huge shrinking of household size and also a lot of replenishing of stock required. On the former we will absolutely see household size decrease but that doesn’t mean that we don’t get to affordability quicker.

    Not mentioned in his analysis (outside of his correctly pointing out that we need studios, one and two beds) is the household capacity point. We have the most under lived in stock in Europe. It is not ideal for people to be house sharing but stock is stock.

    On obsolete housing, I’d point out that things like retrofitting have to be considered in any housing analysis. It is a major intervention in our existing stock and the critical point on obsolescence is the degree of ongoing capex put in. A housing model will struggle to accurately capture this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …and again, this is a projection, it may or may not happen, and the fact government models, predictions, past and present have been completely wrong in regards actual need, resulting in now a potential deficit of 250,000 units, due to decades of this failure, id have very little hope of this 'projection' from actually being met, and the fact, its going to clearly take many years, possible decades, to resolve this serious deficit, i.e. our housing problems are going to persist into the 30's……



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭spillit67


    It is helpful to consider this in an overall Europe context.

    The challenges we have faced others are only seeing the beginning of.

    If you go around Europe in the last 18 months you will see that in places where there has been massive inflation in rental costs they have struggled to stop supply declining. That did not happen in Ireland as the State stepped in and assumed a larger role.

    This needs to be discussed more widely but unfortunately we have people continuing to gaslight the public over housing. I am actually concerned because we are driving private capital away and are now incredibly reliant on the State.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    People gaslighting?

    Is it 2 agencies of the state that have heavily criticised government policy and highlighted failures or 3?
    Not to mention their own watchdog IFAC standing on it’s hond quarters warning about runaway overspending and vote buying budgets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Why are you quoting a post about housing and mentioning IFAC?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,714 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The current housing minister has hit the targets in the last few years and is on track for 40k homes this year, which is the official govt target.

    The target for next year is 50k, so if the govt continue to hit the target, as per recent form, they will likley hit 50k in 2025 also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Because you were trying to blame ‘people’ when in fact this government is being taken to task by their own watchdogs and agencies. What ‘people’ are saying reflects that.
    Keep spinning but it seems more likely it’s you ‘gaslighting’.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/michelle-oneill-apologises-as-charity-that-employed-michael-mcmonagle-says-it-contacted-sinn-fein-more-than-a-year-ago-over-references/a1456674516.html

    "On the references, she added: "I have also established on the Thursday of this week that in August 2023, following media reports of charges against McMonagle, the British Heart Foundation contacted Sinn Féin's former HR manager to verify the email address and identity of the senior press officer who had provided the reference the previous year, which the HR manager did.

    "This contact from the British Heart Foundation was not brought to my attention, or the attention of the Sinn Féin leadership, at that time. This was a serious omission.”

    This problem is getting bigger for Sinn Fein. That the HR Manager said nothing speaks to the culture issue I have been talking about. It is now clear that Sinn Fein is rotten inside. Any HR Manager knows that you don't give references for paedophiles but did nothing. This could cost MON her job. In any other party she would be gone.

    As for the pouches, now that it turns out the ones that the Government approved in the South are cheaper than the ones that SF approved in the North, where do they stand now? Perhaps @FrancieBrady will tell us that they are an inferior colour.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_


    It is helpful to consider this in an overall Europe context.

    Helpful? In what way?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If MoN has done wrong she should go. If she didn’t she needs to ensure structures are put in place to prevent it happening again.

    BTW If a Minister of a Dept here is not responsible for everything in his dept why would O’Neill be accountable for a failing way down in HR?

    Hoist by your own hypocritical petard there blanch?

    The problem for the government is that it isn’t just SF criticising the waste, it’s the teaching unions too who say what most reasonable people are saying about the excess and profligate waste. Spending this money when there are more critical areas to spend ir on is waste.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    A political party should not have a paedophile problem, it's bizarre SF have had it get to this state.

    It makes Corbyn's issue with antisemitism look minor.

    Again, SF don't do accountability and a lot of that is to do with lack of capable politicians beyond the leaders.

    MON should be gone already, you can't take any other politician to account anymore without being a giant hypocrite, own your blind backing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Way down in HR? The thing is, HR set the culture for the organisation under the direction of the leader. I have been proven right again on the rotten culture in Sinn Fein. The place stinks.

    Sinn Fein need fresh leadership, need to open their records on child abuse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why would MoN be responsible for a HR mess up if a Minister here is not responsible for a mess in his/her dept?

    If you are happy with the ‘lessons learnt’ verdict here why can SF no say the same and move on?

    I said before maybe you should sit this out. Again and again you have sought to contain blame when it comes to the government and when it is SF blame automatically goes to the top every time.
    It just downright hypocrisy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Is this the first time that you have acknowledged that Sinn Fein have done wrong?

    If you want to call the facilitation of a paedophile getting a job with children as a "HR mess up", then that is despicable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,799 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I said if they have done wrong.

    They have like every single political party here and in the world done things wrong before and likely will again.

    HR responded the the BHF and didn’t inform the leadership. That is a process dault that needs correcting. The oerp is out of his job and tge two who wrote the references are gone.

    The BHF have their iwn questions to answer too.

    Had it happened in one of the parties here you would have, going on your form, been distancing the relevant minister from responsibility like you did most recently with the Minister responsible for the OPW.

    That’s pure and simple hypocrisy. That’s the ‘culture’ of no accountability you stand over here again and again.

    Again, if MoN has done wrong she needs to step down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You really really don't get it, this isn't just some administrative cock-up, this isn't just some oversight, this is a major failing in relation to child protection.

    Sinn Fein's culture was such that the leader didn't have policies in place to ensure that she was told about references being given for paedophiles to work with other children. That is enough for MON (if that was the responsibility of the party in the North) or MLMD (or both) to step down.

    The SF culture was such that the HR Manager didn't think outside of the policies that they needed to inform the leader. Why? Because SF has over the years paid lip service to child protection, repeatedly facilitating abusers whether that be Liam Adams or those who abused Mairia Cahill.

    As for your whataboutery about other ministers, aren't you the one who keeps telling us that SF will be better, your defence is that they are the same, it is a weak defence, as nobody in any governing party ever helped a paedophile get a job with children, something you have been forced to concede already. The actions of SF in facilitating this child abuser rank up there with the Catholic Church. I can tell you this much, if MON or MLMD were in FG or FF or Labour or even PBP, they would be gone already.

    As for the BHF, it turns out that while the job involved working with children, it didn't meet the threshold for vetting, which means that they were even more reliant on SF telling them about the paedophile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,195 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://sluggerotoole.com/2024/10/05/maurice-quinlivan-td-on-mcmonagle-ill-be-quite-clear-im-pretty-sure-we-didnt-know/

    This article really brings together SF's pr disaster on the McMonagle case. Too many people telling too many different stories (lies).

    It really brings home how the absence of a clear policy on child protection ends in disaster.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,254 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Yes the BHF were quite clear in their statement today that their due diligence was followed to the letter, which in the case of the role was to provide two written references from his previous employer. These references clearly made no mention of his arrest, suspension or the reason for non renewal of his contract.

    MoN's problem is that she was fully aware of his suspension and the reason for it, indeed has been vocal that she ensured it was immediate, yet seems to have taken no interest in where he ended up and didn't even notice him when he was mere feet away. It doesn't add up.

    They still operate under the same legacy of the past, deal with any issues internally but say nout to anyone else nor notify state authorities. The two lads who gave the references are the epitome of this. They are a disgrace. The question is how willing they are to take anyone else down with them?

    Knowledge is learning something, wisdom is learning from it, intelligence thought of it first.



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