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Gript-A source of misinformation. **Read OP before posting**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Only watching Operation Transformation and the Late Late Show is the most unrealistic bit, tbh.

    But no Hollywood movies? No family in Australia/ UK/ America? Only eating bacon and cabbage, not even curry or a pizza? No modern music, or classical either? No mixing with other religions? (Ok, I'll give them that, those Protestants can't be trusted)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,978 ✭✭✭growleaves


    That's the first time I've ever seen an advocate of legal abortion refer to the unborn as a "group of people".

    "they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct"

    Members of these groups of people are themselves likely to present you with opinions so politically incorrect that you have the choice of either masking your anger and disgust, or giving up charity work and limping back to your nice IT job/academic career/whatever.

    Widows might want to talk to you for hours about Lourdes or Pope Francis ("Isn't he a wonderful man?")

    Having African Pentecostals telling you that your (leftist) attitudes are "unchristian" etc.

    But don't let that stop you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    It's very simple, let's cut to the chase, it's part of the push for us to abandon our supposedly "backwards looking ideas of sovereignty". Imagine that.

    We must replace notions of our Irish heritage and cultural awareness with the new ones that are given to our government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    Well done to gript for reporting on this in the kids curriculum.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It isn't. A fifteen second clip from some random YouTube account proves nothing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And I'd say that amounts to a conspiracy theory. It was a pretty stupid portrayal by the publishers and that's it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,202 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    So some loo-la takes a quote totally out of context and sticks it on YouTube as if it proves… what exactly?!?

    Still waiting to find out which members of our government are unelected.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    One that was signed off at multiple levels and people had no problem showing to and discussing with kids



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Nothing to see here at all...

    I'd still wonder why it wasn't included in the Irish language version though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I've seen it happen in the past, went to a gaelscoil and there always tended to be weird differences between the Irish and English edition of books.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,524 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    The comment about wanting nothing to do with a backwards-looking idea of sovereignty is, naturally enough, being presented out of context. He was referring to the Brexit referendum in the UK that represented a backwards-looking idea of sovereignty, and making the point that the Irish people want nothing to do with that idea of sovereignty:

    Last year’s referendum was an ugly and negative affair. No amount of warm words and earnest statements can cover this up. There was no strategy for implementing Brexit. There was just a strategy for winning the vote through a combination of bluster and aggression. It was not a positive assertion of sovereignty; it was the culmination of 30 years of an increasingly corrosive scapegoating of Europe and immigrants for the homegrown divisions in British society. Those false prophets who promised an economic bonanza are now claiming that they have defied the critics and Britain is booming. This is nonsense. Public borrowing and taxes have already risen since the vote and the long-term damage to employment and standards of living is becoming ever more certain. Fundamentally, the narrow Brexit majority represented a rejection of strong rule-based co-operation between states. It asserted a narrow vision of sovereignty that developed in the 19th century and directly led to the two bloodiest wars in history.

    Let there be no doubt about where Ireland stands. We want nothing to do with a backward-looking idea of sovereignty. We remain absolutely committed to the ideals of the European Union. We see the Union for what it is - the most successful international organisation in world history. While the extremes of right and left join together to attack it, they have no credible response to the fact that every member state has secured a significant rise in living standards and a Continent once defined by conflict is today defined by co-operation. The Union is flawed, but its successes are undeniable. There are certainly different views here. There are those who buy into the anti-EU narratives, but the overwhelming majority of the Irish people are determined that Ireland’s future will remain a European future.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2017-05-11/4/#spk_5


    Just like the lesson in the book, is being presented out of context. I have no issue with acknowledging the fact that the lesson goes hard on presenting stereotypes of two extreme examples of families in Irish society, that isn’t an issue as I’m aware there exists in Irish society more grounded examples of both types of families, and not just limited to rural Gaeltacht areas or urban areas of Ireland, but interspersed across both areas, there are examples of both types of families. They were being purposely represented as extreme opposites for the purposes of facilitating class discussion and having the children engage their critical faculties. I’ll be honest, I chuckled at the portrayals of both types of families.

    However, the real damage was done by the exclusion of the lesson from the Irish language version of the book:

    “The absence of the comparative exercise from the Irish language version of the book, while welcome in one regard, also serves to highlight how conscious the authors may have been that their Punch-like caricature would be exposed to a more informed criticism from Irish-speaking students who are immersed, more than most, in the beauty of Irish culture and language,” she said.

    The most reasonable and charitable explanation is that the publishers left it out of the book is because it would have caused the children of those Irish families being portrayed as a stereotype to question their family, when the lesson was intended to teach children that all families are different, all families are equal.

    The comparison clearly was not an equally positive portrayal of both families.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,202 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Much ado about nothing. Yet again.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    Nothing out of context about MM's words in that clip whatsoever. He has intentionally sought to conflate any notion of Irish sovereignty as being akin to a failed brexit movement, to being exclusionist to the "greater party" that is the EU. That's who he's loyal to.

    It's a common political feint to undermine any nationalistic pride in who we are. It's an ongoing stragety and as we're all such fans of gript here have some more of this cheap trick they try to hang on us.

    Any strong sense of self identity as being intrinsically Irish in practice custom or tradition is to be eroded, it's out in the open so let's not pretend anymore OK?

    Who was it again who said "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command"....

    :)



  • Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Been proud of been Irish is not exclusionary - even though some would like to portray it that way.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Yes, there is. It's one of the oldest bad faith tricks in the book. Ironic that you end with Orwell while praising a known peddler of disinformation.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,524 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Nothing out of context about MM's words in that clip whatsoever. He has intentionally sought to conflate any notion of Irish sovereignty as being akin to a failed brexit movement, to being exclusionist to the "greater party" that is the EU. That's who he's loyal to. 

    No, he hasn’t. He intentionally pointed out that what led to the Brexit referendum was an expression of backwards ideas about sovereignty, as opposed to the positive ideas of sovereignty as expressed by the Irish people. As a member of the EU, Ireland retains its sovereignty, and also acknowledges the positive influence that being a member of the European Union has had on Irish society.

    It's a common political feint to undermine any nationalistic pride in who we are. It's an ongoing stragety and as we're all such fans of gript here have some more of this cheap trick they try to hang on us.


    Whenever anyone uses the ‘we’ word, my immediate thought is always, always - “What’s this we business, paleface?” In case you’re not familiar with the context:


    There is no attempt to undermine national pride in who ‘we’ are, it’s simply a fact that your idea of national pride in who you are, and my idea of national pride in who I am, do not appear to be at all similar. It’s rather like Philip O’ Dwyer in an attempt to humiliate an individual he assumed was a foreigner, had his arse handed to him when the guy asked him as Gaeilge an bhfuil Gaeilge aige?

    https://www.thejournal.ie/darragh-adelaide-irish-language-far-right-6185339-Oct2023/

    Plastic Paddys, or plastic patriots, is all the likes of O’ Dwyer and the likes of those whinging about Irish sovereignty are, no different than Gript’s regular audience, helmed by McGuirk who doesn’t appear to hold any political principles whatsoever - anyone who will have him really, and that doesn’t appear to amount to a whole lot of people given his various misadventures in Irish politics, not to mention the lack of bona fides, much less backbone, among Gript’s regular columnists and contributors.


    Any strong sense of self identity as being intrinsically Irish in practice custom or tradition is to be eroded, it's out in the open so let's not pretend anymore OK? 

    You demand we not pretend any more, yet you still pretend that’s what anyone is saying. It’s clearly not, and no amount of weasel worded articles shat from Gript can make it so. Irish Arts and Culture is well funded by public funding, traditional sports organisations are incredibly well funded by public funding, and Irish education, in particular the requirement in Education to promote the Irish language, is beyond question.

    Who was it again who said "The Party told Pyou to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command"....


    That was Eric Arthur Blair, and you’re taking that quote from 1984 out of context too. That’s one of the fun things about these “far-right recommended reading lists” that are doing the rounds, with of course anyone being in possession of said material being associated with “far-right” ideology. The only indication it gives me is that they haven’t actually read any of the literature, but merely claiming to have read it gives the impression that they are to be perceived as an intellectual. The only thing worse than a Socialist, is a Socialist who thinks all other Socialists are inferior.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    An excellent outcome thanks in no small part to the parents involved who brought this to light and the gript coverage.

    Now, the person(s) who wrote this and those who approved it need sacking next. Set an example that being what we are is not an affront, even to extremists on the far left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭H_Lime


    Excellent straight forward questioning by Ben and in fairness to boy wonder he sounds suitably unimpressed. Here's hoping the whole tender and approval is analysed and accountability held and changes made.

    Well done to gript once more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,965 ✭✭✭buried


    From that schoolbook segment it really looks like the current Irish establishment regime has a real fear and paranoia over indigenous, traditional Irish culture. This is excellent news, because if you really want to protest against the government and its various branches of regimes, all you have to do is simply immerse yourself in learning more and more about our islands ancient native culture. You'll be helping yourself and also terrifying the Hell out of them, because they clearly are afraid of it and there is nothing they can do to stop you from learning and immersing yourself in it, or showcase their power by shutting/clamping it down.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭H_Lime




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,919 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Where's all this running down our culture stuff coming from ?

    Our Irish culture is in rude health.

    Music, drama, literature, heritage, sport etc. etc.

    All blooming in every part of the country with local involvement supported by national organisations.

    Just look around you.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's just the usual grumbling about foreigners. I've been hearing this nonsense about opposing racism being a new religion as ardent as Catholicism for a decade now as well.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,919 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I never heard anyone in the real world talking like this.

    I must be mixing with the wrong sort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,372 ✭✭✭✭suvigirl


    Blooming all over the world even, Irish dancing classes everywhere, GAA clubs in the four corners of the earth! Not to mention or singing, film making, writers.

    It's just the guff that the anti foreigner brigade comes out with. If you don't hate foreigners, you must hate Irish, nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Yep, it's confusing me. Lately I've gotten into the likes of Cormac Begley, both modern takes on traditional Irish music. On top of that, two of our best films in recent years are Irish language movies. I get a feeling that half the people who are so protective about Irish culture are unlikely to even be a fan of the arts in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,919 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    All those people Irish, a bit Irish, not a bit Irish.

    All celebrating our culture.

    Some people need to get off the screens and head off to a festival or a summer school.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,599 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nor have I. It's very much an echo chamber thing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,965 ✭✭✭buried


    Where is it? It's in that current establishment curriculum schoolbook that we are discussing here that racially lampoon's traditional Irish families like something out of a third reich schoolbook that had a penchant for racially lampooning anything that they were terrified of.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,919 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Would you stop with the third Reich stuff nobody's terrified of anything.

    Especially today's kids.

    I haven't seen the book, only the bit posted here.

    It looks to me to be an effort to get kids to think about issues and decide for themselves.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,965 ✭✭✭buried


    It's an effort to conflate anything to to with an indigenous traditional Irish cultural mindset as being totally backward, inferior and comical. That is what it literally showcases. It also showcases the mindset of the establishment fools that passed off on it. And it also handily showcases how to p!ss them off in the process.

    Bullet The Blue Shirts



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