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How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,916 ✭✭✭eire4


    No question the good friday agreement is not set in stone for all time. At some point Irish reunification will come and that will be the end of the good friday agreement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,465 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    There is nothing unjust about a person unable to accept democracy not getting what they want, nor should society pander to people who wish to colonise them just because they have been trying to do that for a long time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Packrat


    But thats not what I said, what I said/meant was that it would be injust to expect them to leave. It's not even a remote possibility anyway so fairly irrelevant.

    Absolutely its not unjust that they should live in a state that they as a minority disagree with, but as I pointed out, - they'll cause annoyance, difficulty and possibly mayhem within it.

    And as I also said, I'd vote in favour of a UI regardless.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,968 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    It's increasingly obvious that unionism is now on the wrong side of history, they've left themselves little wriggle room with their stance on Brexit. It's a degenerate ideology like the KKK or national socialism and should be left out in the cold.

    Dublin was once the second city of the empire with a large working class loyalist population which disappeared almost without a trace since independence.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,425 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Yes, but you're not defining what a 'united Ireland' would actually look like. It's very unlikely that it would just be a continuation of the Republic with six extra counties added (i.e. retaining the tricolour, Amhran na bhFiann, the Gardai, the Dáil etc). A 32 county state would be a brand new entity and would look different to what we have now (we don't even know what sort of parliament it would have or how the new government would operate).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,218 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I'm curious what makes "New Irelanders" think that such changes would be acceptable to a majority in the 26 counties?

    I can speak for myself, I wouldn't support such changes like changing our flag or our anthem or form of govt.

    Who would we be doing this for? To appease a small minority on the island we should upend everything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Well aware of that. Id still hold my nose and vote in favour.

    What I'd be sadder about is the inevitable violence precipitated by any version of a UI or NAI.

    People probably die in every scenario apart from status quo.

    I'd still vote in favour.

    I wouldn't like any of those changes either, but practical reality means some or all of them would have to happen for a UI to occur.

    Us just annexing the north would be a recipe for even greater violence and a far higher number of deaths.

    Not sure I'd vote for that.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Dickie10


    theres a silent group getting bigger all the time in republic of ireland that would vote NO to UI. THey know the mayhem and war that would be unleashed by the UVF and other Loyalist groups in republic if it happened. it would be IRA all over again they would believe it was a just war, that republic of ireland was taking over a part of Britain by force. like all Geurrilla armies in war they only need to be lucky once in setting bombs off in the likes of croke park or Aviva at matches or in small provincial towns in carlow, kerry etc. the Gardai would need to be on high alert all the time, would the irish army have to fight the loyalists terror groups? Anyone who thinks a United Ireland would not be a full on civil war is living in cloud cuckoo land i think. the only answe may lie in where as some poster said a few minutes ago, where did the working class loyalist families of dublin go to post 1922? we are becoming more familiar with the story of what happened the middles and upper class loyalists around ireland in the south after 22/23, seems they left in thousands to England after landed estates and houses were burned or commandeered. anyone any information on working class loyalists in dublin city?

    Only way out of having a united ireland without too much bloodshed would be reintegration to the Commonwealth, maybe have an Australian style flag with small British flag integrated to a new flag with green, orange and Blue. maybe use a flag of stpatrick as he unites us all as christians. Maybe push politics towards a christian conservative party that would united catholic, protestant and prysbtarian and this would bring in DUP/FINE GAEL/AONTU/FIANNA FAIL member who are against abortion, gay marriage etc. i ften found the likes of Ian Paisley actually had an awful lot of common ground with catholics conservatisim and catholic church , socially conservative groups thats the way forward, make groups unite on common values north and south. perhaps leave room for a rebirth of a new Labour party to gain support in large urban areas like Belfast, Dublin, Derry, Cork, Limerick.

    we basically need to strip back everything we have painted on to ireland to make us different from UK. A lot of it is only window dressing anyway since 1906 era irish language, GAA, mythology eetc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    this is just scare mongering.

    the UVF and other loyalist groups do not have the support and ability to carry out the type of attacks they were able to carry out during the troubles, nothing near it.

    they were only able to do that because of the support of the british state and they don't have that, the most they can do is small scale rioting.

    the common wealth is irrelevant, wasting our time integrating ourselves into it is going to do absolutely nothing as unionists dont give a stuff whether we are part of it or not.

    if there is to be any violence, and it's unlikely, it's in a situation where NI votes yes but the ROI votes no, and even then it is not going to be anything serious because the support and ability isn't there.

    a UI is unavoidable, it is going to happen, that's set in stone, the question is when and whether we vote for it or have it forced on us by the british state who decide they no longer want NI.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭BaywatchHQ


    This is the typical type of unionist that you will welcome into your New Ireland. There are many of them too.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,781 ✭✭✭✭maccored




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 William_Flynn


    Iain Paisley Sr. in an interview said he would welcome a united Ireland… under the crown.

    However this form of a united Ireland, which is acceptable to unionists, wouldn’t be to the majority of people calling for a united Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    But isn't that what was on offer as "Home rule" in the 1920's, which Ulstermen said they'd go to war against? Essentially a Dublin parliament within the UK. So Ian Paisley Jr welcomes that, really?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭scottser


    Once we take back the 6, we can just refer to Unionism as 'terrorism'. Ban their marches, their flags, and turn the state's media against any extremist views. Make them feel ashamed and disgusted at their leaders by linking them with racism and pedophilia. Get the middle classes to do a proper hatchet job on it in the same way they did with republicanism.

    You can't mollycoddle loyalists. Best just to oppress the shite out of them. They will always feel victimised anyway, sure, it would be wrong to disappoint them. Besides, look what the Israelis are getting away with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 293 ✭✭Madeleine Birchfield


    The way that things are going right now it would look like the unionists will likely be integrated into a united Ireland by getting the unionists to focus all their attention on Muslim and African migrants and the British government who is responsible for bringing the migrants into Ulster and refusing to reduce migration levels. Many of them would take a united Ireland if it means that Ulster won't be swamped by Muslims and Africans like what happened in England with Greater London, the West Midlands, and Lancashire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,218 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Do we really want to inherit what we've witnessed in recent days?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Im a no , too much hassle to integrate a population group that hate you, if there was a real sea change where Unionists started to hate GB then maybe and attitudes changed down here but that would be outside my lifetime

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,492 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    Yep and hence my stance around I’m perfectly happy with the 26 counties we have - I don’t want a United Ireland - last week has shown just what thuggery and inane stupidity we’d be taking on - we have enough of it here without adding to it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,492 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    what mechanism would force us to take on NI if the British washed their hands of it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,173 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    None. The GFA provides for the only mechanism for a UI, which is when the will of NI and ROI separately is both for a UI.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,492 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    One interesting scenario down the road is which could collapse first the EU or the UK? the odds are not 0 that something significant happens

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭scottser


    We'll all be dead and gone by the time either of those happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    there are lots of forces that would force it.

    a UI is going to happen, that is for sure, voting no to it is not going to prevent or delay it.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the UK most likely as scotland will go independant eventually thankfully and england won't be able to afford to keep the rest of the uniion and over seas colonies going.

    the EU won't collapse as ultimately dispite everything, it has been a force for good over all and has brought european nations together.

    the dark forces that want to destroy it so as to turn their countries into some sort of dictatorships will ultimately fail, they have got the odd win and may get a couple more, but ultimately as they always fail in government they will be gone after 1 term so won't be able to do too much damage over all.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,951 ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    It just makes you realize how outrageous the Israeli crimes are, imagine Ireland dropping a few drones loaded with 500lb bombs onto every pub in Sandy Row because a loyalist fella drinks there sometimes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    in the second case you cant say "wont" , demographics and debt are growing problems . if for instance Germany ceases to be an economic powerhouse the EU at least might need to reform into a more loose association where one country isnt going to accept financial obligations to others.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭scottser


    I was being facetious and sarcastic with the above post, I guess trying to demonstrate how easily a regime can vilify and alienate a demographic if so wished.

    Personally, the best solution for NI would be for it to be fully independent with a properly functioning parliament and let it choose who it becomes allied to - hopefully both ourselves and the UK. Make the communities work together instead of enabling the current impasse which stifles any talks of the place reaching any sort of potential. A UI probably won't work as currenty envisaged, but I'll be voting for it given the opportunity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,781 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    unionism is a desired union with britain. A united is the opposite thing



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    Unionism and Loyalism are incompatible with the Republic. That is a fact.

    To me, the status quo would be best ( or would have been best before Brexit ).

    Let the border between the Republic of Ireland and the North be as transparent and as invisible as possible, but let Belfast have a devolved government within the UK.



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