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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    Your post quotes a media article. Please supply actual quotes from the report and I shall happily give you my opinions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    The source was named in the article. You can see the references [x] from Page 202 onwards. This is [10] as an example:

    10 Central Statistic Office. CSO population 2022 Census. https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/
    population/censusofpopulation2022/censusofpopulation2022-summaryresults/
    (accessed 4 Jul 2023).

    https://www.hrb.ie/fileadmin/user_upload/HRB_Alcohol_Overview_Series_13.pdf

    3.1 Per capita alcohol consumption.

    A total of 42,266,785 litres of pure alcohol was sold for consumption in Ireland in 2023. This
    is then divided by the number of people aged 15 years and over in the population, which was
    4,270,000 in 2023 according to CSO estimates [10]. This means that per capita alcohol use
    in Ireland in 2023 was 9.9 litres of pure alcohol per person aged 15 years and over, a 2.9%
    decrease from 2022, (based on 2022 population estimates).

    Because per capita alcohol consumption is based on all adults aged 15 years and over in
    Ireland, this rate of consumption includes those who abstain from consuming alcohol. Data
    from the 2023 Healthy Ireland Survey indicate that 30% of adults in Ireland aged 15 years and
    over had not consumed alcohol in the previous 12 months [3]. When abstainers (n=1,281,000
    according to the 2023 Healthy Ireland Survey) are excluded, alcohol consumption among
    drinkers aged 15 years and over increases to 14.1 litres of pure alcohol per person in 2023.
    This is considerably more than the Department of Health’s stated aim to reduce per capita
    alcohol consumption in Ireland to 9.1 litres.

    Globally, up to one-quarter of alcohol use is not officially recorded [11]. A study of 25,728
    respondents from 33 European countries (including Ireland) was carried out in 2021 in order
    to establish the prevalence of unrecorded alcohol use. The study found that seven countries
    (including Ireland) had high levels of unrecorded alcohol use, with 11.3% of per capita alcohol
    use in Ireland estimated as being unrecorded. Ireland was above the European average for
    unrecorded alcohol use among male drinkers (14.2% compared with the European average
    of 13.9%). Females’ unrecorded alcohol use was noted as 7.9% in Ireland (compared with the European average of 9.9%). The study concludes that when unrecorded alcohol use is considered along with Revenue figures, the true rate of per capita alcohol consumption is substantially higher than what is officially reported [12].



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,333 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Yes that time you fell for easily disproveable brexit nonsense and refused to admit your naivety. This new post with zero sources that is full of rumors and unsubstantiated claims reeks of the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,808 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Given that the distinctions between cafes / bars / pubs / restaurants is so blurred in DE, FR, etc., I don't know how anybody can arrive at a comparison between Ireland and other countries.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,681 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I only skimmed through the 200 odd pages, and I did not look up any of the reference except the one about the estimate of the number of over 15 year olds in Ireland at the time of the last Census. The Conclusions section does recognise that there are gaps in the data. But your characterisation of the report needs some opposing evidence to back up your claims.

    Research gaps
    This report has highlighted that we have multiple sources of information, from routine
    surveys, national information systems, administrative data and published literature about
    alcohol use in Ireland. There remains some important gaps in our knowledge base,
    namely the lack of data on numbers of emergency department presentations and
    ambulance callouts that are alcohol related. There are groups where there is limited or no
    information available or a lack of up-to-date information available, so we do not know the
    extent of alcohol use among these populations, for example, LGBTQI population, ethnic
    minorities including members of the Traveller community and those living in Ireland as asylum seekers or refugees.

    It is difficult to quantify the involvement of alcohol in domestic violence and we have
    included information in this report about alcohol use among the victims of sexual assault, but
    what about the perpetrators? There is limited information about community mental health
    services and how alcohol use and mental health issues are often intertwined.
    Alcohol use places a considerable burden on Irish society but the economic costs are
    relatively unknown. A report published in 2010 is still relied on to estimate the societal
    costs associated with problem alcohol use (EUR 3.7 billion or 1.9% of GDP). More recently,
    a systematic review and meta-analysis of available literature found that in high-income
    countries, the economic costs of alcohol use were estimated to be approximately 2.6%
    of the GDP. Government revenue raised from alcohol sales is significantly less. Given the
    evidence of the harm associated with alcohol use in Ireland, it is vital that a precise figure be
    determined to understand the financial burden alcohol use places on Irish society



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,333 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Wait are you serious? This an hilarious yet sad attempt to skew the stats. Yes if you remove the people who don't drink anything from the PER CAPITA stats of course consumption goes up...... The HRB literally skew the stats to ignore the per capita number to then complain the DOH goal of a reduction per capita isn't close to being met. Also their only data to base this number of teetotalers on is from a self reporting survey where they just asked people if they had had a drink in the past 12 months. Jesus fvcking christ…….

    You know what I hear if you remove the numbers of cars crashed and deaths on the road from the stats then Ireland is the safest country to drive in the world.

    Also it turns out if you remove everyone who doesn't use heroin from our statistics then we have 100% heroin use in Ireland….

    Post edited by VinLieger on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 346 ✭✭Dub.


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

    My old man used to buy a cheap bottle of Tesco vodka and a few cans for the weekend, on sunday night he`d go around to his local for a couple of pints and a chat. That was all, he didn`t touch alcohol during the week. Mup changed that, and he couldn`t afford the couple of pints and the chat on a sunday night with his pension. He refused help from his kids as he was a proud old git. He died from covid a while back and i worked out that he hadn`t been around to his local for a pint and a chat in nearly a year. Our government literally stole that small pleasure from him in his last year of life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Timistry


    They had the same offer on in LIDL in Cork last week but for the princely sum of €15.49



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,150 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    It's the cheapest they're allowed. Before MUP it used to be €7.69 I think.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,327 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Sadly the story of MUP is full of folk like your dad.

    Doing no harm to anyone, enjoying a few drinks in their own way.

    Make no mistake, the promotors of MUP knew people like your dad would suffer for their experiment.

    They didn't care though, they were blinded by the idea that increasing the price of drink would improve outcomes for those who drink excessively.

    Everyone else was just collateral damage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You're being too kind to them elporello.

    There were those who want to control society and there were those motivated by naked commercial self-interest.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,327 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I'm certainly not going soft on MUP.

    I hate it as much as I did when I first heard of the idea years ago.

    When I mentioned promoters of MUP I was referring to the medics and campaigning groups like AAI.

    At least, wrong as they were, they appeared to believe that MUP would deliver some health benefits.

    But how the politicians swallowed the nonsense and it got cross party support still amazes me.

    I don't know how public representatives could keep a straight face sitting across the table from publican and off licence lobbying organisations extolling the health benefits of MUP.

    How could all the parties opposition and government alike fail to detect what you correctly describe as naked commercial self interest ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,596 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Looks like MUP isn't working, who will be losing their job over this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Not made with hands


    They will decide it's too low. And increase it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    Another policy copied from another country (Scotland) where studies show minimal impact on the health of those it is meant to protect!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭JVince


    + 25c per bottle deposit 😀

    Beer is cheap to produce. This used to sell here regularly for about 4.50 a 6 pack and sometimes on promo for 3.99.

    Had it once - bland and flavourless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ohmeha


    Irish MUP was wildly exceeded my expectations on the social and health disaster it has become in just 2 years

    You just know this latest terrible data on alcohol and drug consumption this will result in the Charity industry CV tickers and the public health guardian Publicans to devise even more extreme unhinged 'solutions' for the government from another massive increase in the MUP threshold to outright banning of off-licenses and supermarket sales



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,333 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Just means to those imbeciles who back it that it's not working because alcohol is still too cheap somehow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭bog master


    Maybe we can persuade ReTurn to back removal of MUP. If price goes up again and people stop buying it means less profit for the quango!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Should appeal then to drinkers of Bud, Bud Light, Coors, Rockshore, Carling, Heineken, etc etc etc

    Bland and flavourless is what the market wants. It's stuff that actually has a flavour that's a harder sell.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,333 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    The fact that the usual nanny staters aren't in here trying to defend it after there finally being definitive Irish stats proving MUPs complete ineffectiveness is telling for me.

    But then again they are the kind of people who believed the brexit pint glass nonsense so who knows what nonsense they will try to spin for this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,444 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    It depends if the stuff in LIDL is from Germany or not… there was a time some versions were from France and some from Germany.

    The German stuff was a notch above all of the brands listed there imo

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'd disagree. German beers are lovely. Krombacher, Bitburger etc. Most of the craft stuff is dreadful but a lot of people feel pressured ot say it's great and think there is some sort of honour in ordering a pint of monks gunk when in town.

    Lidls "german" beers are anything but german unfortunately.

    It's good to keep this thread alive. We can but live in hope that someone will see this MUP for the madness it is.



  • Posts: 8,532 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If anything MUP has encouraged me to binge more than having 2 or 3 beers every second or third night. And we all know having 10 cans on a Saturday is worse for health than spreading that 10 cans out over the week. I don't think I am in the minority on that? Also when on holidays recently I went to town on the €2.50 pints. usually I wouldn't have done that but sitting there thinking about the gouging going on back home made me make the most of the week in the sun.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,856 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Shock horror MUP hasn't worked. The article says cocaine is the next problem on the list. We need to get the dealers to put MUP on every gram.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,150 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    Some version was brewed in Ireland for a while as well. I don't know who was doing it for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 39,857 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ridiculous to be comparing premium German pilsners with the bargain basement[*] Aldi/Lidl stuff, as for craft beers nobody mentioned them except you.

    [*] Bargain basement in countries except Ireland, obviously

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 546 ✭✭✭BagofWeed


    Bland and flavourless is Ireland in a nutshell. The anti everything nanny staters would ban or put restrictions on anything that is anyway exciting if they could.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Any politician calling to my door might be expecting an immigration rant but they're getting a MUP rant. We're OK financially but after a long weekif work it is depressing seeing 4 cans of shite for near or over a tenner.



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