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Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 23 MagaBot


    It's very strange that you say with glee that you intentionally destroy the cans to prevent someone else from potentially recycling them. It is incredibly petty and childish.

    Anyway, I will say that going out of your way to fund a scheme that you dislike is an odd way of "boycotting" it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,964 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Still haven't engaged with this scam since it launched, but then I had already accepted it as a glorified price increase/stealth taxation designed to make it as awkward as possible to avoid. The only ones winning are those collecting the interest on these "deposits".

    As I mentioned though, I don't pay for a bin collection service either (all of my rubbish goes into the local landfill compactors for about a tenner per boot load - 8ish black bags) so I'm saving there as well.

    Ultimately though, my time is more valuable to me than wandering the town with bags of rubbish to find a machine that might take it for what is ultimately maybe 15/20 quid a month, or the cost of a single takeaway including delivery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,051 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There Is no searching and no time wasting. Small box in the utility room. I pick it up when it's three quarter full and put it in the car, when I go to get a few litres of milk I throw the into the machine collect my receipt and it pays for a couple litres of milk.

    In this life you can spend your time looking at problems and worrying about them, or you can just look for the solution.

    The solutions are usually pretty simple. Before the deposit return I woukd go for a walk I carried a small bag to collect bits of rubbish along the road I walked. It was mostly plastic bottles and cans. You can already see the drop off in them

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    What if you dont have a utility room? Or a car?

    Anyway, I was shocked when browsing the fizzy drinks on tesco. 8 x 150ml cans of Coke is now 9.55 including the deposit. Thats 6.96 a litre. Meanwhile, 6 cans of beer (440ml) is 3.79 a litre.

    Why is coke so expensive now? Oh yeah, the Sugar Sweetened Drinks Tax: https://www.revenue.ie/en/companies-and-charities/excise-and-licences/sugar-sweetened-drinks-tax/index.aspx



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Get a Club Card and you can have the Coke for €6.55 including the deposit. Or if you can live with using bigger cans, this is available, without the card:

    Coca-Cola Original Taste Soft Drink 12X330ml

    €14.00

    €3.54/litre

    + €1.80 Deposit



  • Registered Users Posts: 22 Toranaga


    You presumably have another room in your abode? You can get places by other means than a car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,051 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Again you are just looking at the problem, it could be a bag under the sink or a box in a corner of a press. Put them into a bag and take them to the shop. Biggest failing often is waiting until there is too many. It like the lad that builds up a load of money in coins and tge bank are reluctant to take them. There is solutions for nearly everything

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Oh let's completely overlook that 4 years ago 24 Diet Coke cans were €12 as standard, often down to €8 on sale. Now you can't even get the 24 pack anymore, the 18 pack is €17, only a euro cheaper than the full sugar versions which the smart among ye will immediately notice that the full sugar versions should be more than a euro more expensive due to the tax… And that's all before this re-scam charge. And people defending prices… ye are the reason this crap comes in and is just accepted. Suits ye and yours fine so feck everyone else. There's another thread on selfishness in the first page ye should post in…

    FYI: Aldi selling the 18 packs for €10 presently, full sugar or diet/zero. I stocked up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭jj880


    Hard to believe this relabelling out of scope containers carry on has resurfaced. As if people have endless time to run around doing yet more free work to earn their own money back. More than 1 Re-Turn plant in this thread. Its comical.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,803 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    The solution to this particular problem is not to engage with it. Reduce your use of these types of containers and those that you do use fire them into your recycle bin.

    Engagement with the system will have you tearing your hair out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 575 ✭✭✭vafankillar


    it's over a month now since shops were warned that they'd be fined 5k if they were selling non-return products. shop i work is still selling them and as are others around, from googling can't find any reports of it happening either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,698 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Should report yourself to Re-Turn and be promptly told "it's nothing to do with us, now stop bothering us while why count up the millions we're making"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Deleted



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭bog master


    They palmed off enforcement of that to the County Councils!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    In fairness if you destroy cans and bottles where deposit was paid and present this as a sort of a protest you actually sound like you are working for DRS benefit. Simply because they will then just keep your money.

    If you want to protest then stop buying cans and bottles where deposit is charged. That is the only way to hurt them in a pocket as this scheme is directly associated with producers of such drinks.

    Go for glass bottles and make your own soft drinks. If enough people stop buying logo'ed produce they would abandon it faster than you think is possible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,474 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So no enforcement then, unless someone has upset the Council for other reasons.

    Joke of a scheme being run here while Re-turn get paid a lot for very little.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Do you know where the shops are getting their supplies from? Producers and wholesalers should have stopped supplying non logo stock in mid March.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    There are a lot of ways to force them to either improve this scheme or abandon it. From outright boycott of products with deposit charged to little more time consuming but direct reduction of profit this "non-profit" organization is making like printing receipt after every single bottle or can you deposit in the machine. If enough people start doing this watch how fast they will implement some app or mobile wallet as they would not be able to keep up with changing rolls and servicing printers in machines. Also stores will push them towards this as cashiers will be swamped with hundreds of vouchers which need to be scanned one after another. Well, if we have to put bottles and cans one after another nearly perfectly alligned so code can be scanned why not to give them taste of their own medicine?

    I have been depositing couple cans and bottles every morning on my way from work. Sometimes more sometimes less, I kept vouchers as I did not need anything from the store that time. Today I was paying for purchase and gave cashier about 10 vouchers and she rolled her eyes as she had to scan them one by one. Funny thing is that it was me who had to put cans in one by one she got it easy yet still, she did not like it. I do not want to make fuss for cashiers but if that is a way to make this unfit system to work better I can easily produce 200-300 receipts a week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    The Minister is standing his ground against the media campaign by the waste companies trying to justify a price increase.

    https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22414474/



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I don't have to make any special effort to align the bottles or cans a certain way. They all go through regardless of orientation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    That's the way it was set up in the legislation.

    It possibly makes more sense to give the job to local councils rather than set up a separate Re-turn enforcement section.

    Of course it only works if the councils actually do the job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Maybe you were born on Sunday. Or maybe you use different machine. Or maybe that machine is calibrated properly. I tried to deposit bottles in Lidl and 2 out of 3 were rejected 2-3x so I just packed them all and tried in Dunnes. Most of them went in on first try.

    You need to realize that while you may never experience issues with your machines that does not mean that everything works perfectly for everyone else. Some posters here do have strange attitude, some sort of god complex when they think that anyone who complain about these machines must be stupid or something because they themselves never had any issue.

    You can love this scheme as perhaps it gives you that fuzzy warm feeling that you are doing something to save the planet but for me and as it seems quite a lot of the people it is unnecessary exercise in stupidity mainly because most of the recyclables were recycled and recovered even before these green wonders came to existence. Even green bin waste was and still is being sorted out by refuse collecting companies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Free movement of goods means Re-Turn cant enforce or fine anyone who sells imported stuff. It is up to them to work out something with importers they cant stop them importing goods. That is why we see mainly cans from Belgium or Poland.

    Articles 26 and 28-37 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU). The right to free movement of goods originating in Member States, and of goods from third countries which are in free circulation in the Member States, is one of the fundamental principles of the Treaty (Article 28 TFEU).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Why would you need to return mutipacks and large bottles used in the home. Can anybody tell me when there used there and put in green bin in the home. Smaller bottles and one off sales of cans i get maybe a need for.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Thats a great point and would make things easier for people like me. The argument for the system is people throwing their empty bottle out of the car window. The majority of people who buy multi packs bring them home. Where they have a green bin. So by all means put the deposit on one off cans or bottles one might buy in a filling station, not the multi packs one buys in a shopping centre(or gets delivered from a shopping centre).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭SteM


    I see a lot of local housing estates where kids have taken bottles or cans from multipacks and they have just been discarded on the road, especially during summer holidays. I saw it happening on our road all of the time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    No doubt that would be a lot more convenient.

    But you would need to show how that system would deliver the target of 90% collection by 2030 which is the aim of DRS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,631 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This absolutely and utterly does not apply to this.

    Local labelling and levies or taxation are not affected by this. You are charged Irish VAT on stuff bought from another EU country once the retailer reaches a certain sales level; products sold here need their ingredients listed in English and so on.

    Importers cannot put product on sale until it is compliant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Watching people lugging up bag full of cans from home is mental in my opinion. There has to be a middle ground



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭Buffman


    Or even better if you have access to a UK clubcard, it's currently £7 for 24x330ml of Diet Coke/Coke Zero and no DRS. Similar deals in other NI supermarkets also so worth adding soft drinks to the shopping lists if going up there.

    100%, there was lots of discussion about price increases previously in the thread with some trying to say actual product prices hadn't gone up, maybe true with alcohol to a certain extent as MUP already had prices ridiculously high, but when it comes to soft drinks, they have increased since DRS, either through shrikflation as with the drop from 24 to 18 can packs or actual price increases.

    FYI, if you move to a 'smart' meter electricity plan, you CAN'T move back to a non-smart plan.

    You don't have to take a 'smart' meter if you don't want one, opt-out is available.

    Buy drinks in 3L or bigger plastic bottles or glass bottles or cartons to avoid the DRS fee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    If I wasn't so far south, I'd be buying everything up north just to bypass this scam. However, once they inevitably increase the scam charge it may be worth the trip. I'd rather waste it on diesel than take part. Bought 10x18 packs in Aldi. €100 and €27 scam deposit. I also emailed the CCPC complaining that every store selling the 18 packs are breaking the sugar tax law. Not that I expect them to do anything in benefit of the consumer. The expected outcome if any action is taken is probably a price increase for the full sugar versions.

    I also find it fitting that Coca-Cola have no email or complaint procedure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    So you want to make things even more difficult for people who prefer the normal soft drinks? The sugar tax has nothing to do with the DRS.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    No, I want the crowd who are supposed to monitor retailers to ensure they're not screwing us over, which they blatantly are, to do their job. And yes, the scam and the sugar tax are different, I was using it to point out that not only are retailers overcharging us for the 18 packs, they're also breaking the law regarding the sugar tax. Just seems funny that around the time the deposit scam came in, the 24 packs disappeared, as the 18 pack was to ensure the full sugar ones were the same cost as the 24 diet ones. Now they're only a euro cheaper than the full sugar, and the 24 pack has been dropped to 18 for no reason other than greed.

    Fitting though that you'd rather blame me than the scammers... this is why they get away with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭greasepalm


    Last week got a delivery from local chippy and a can , no deposit taken ,no logo and UK origin.

    Went into green bin.

    Loads of cans and bottles need returning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Received latest bill from our waste and recycling company. Gone up by €14 - 15% increase.

    Thank you Ossian Smyth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,474 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    No, that's fake news.

    It is just a coincidence that the waste company has lost out on their cut of the millions in revenue from selling on recyclables.

    The same millions from selling the recyclables that Re-turn declare as one of their major sources of funding.

    Just a coincidence.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭SteM


    I tried it this morning. Didn't work in an aldi or dunnes machine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 944 ✭✭✭bog master


    But but but, we were told this scheme would cost us plebes nothing!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,298 ✭✭✭jj880


    Remember though. The bin men are raising prices for no reason. They are just robbing us. So we've been told on here at the start of July. Bin men = Bad men. Nothing to do with Ossian and the lads:



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    But, but, but, we copied the system from other countries where it works.

    Supposedly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    It works in Dunnes for me. I never tried Aldi. It also works in Tesco.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Which company and did they give any reason for the increase ?

    It would seem strange if any of it is DRS related because the IWMA are currently negotiating with the department for compensation for loss of recyclables.

    https://www.mrw.co.uk/news/irish-waste-industry-raises-drs-loss-fears-03-07-2024/

    Unless of course they are looking to be paid twice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,474 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Unless of course they can no longer sustain the losses and are being fobbed off by the Minister.

    The reports I read said that they were in negotiations with the Department, and that prices would have to be raised unless a plan could be agreed with the Department to compensate for the losses. Losses reported at €700,000 a month since Return was introduced, and instead the recyclables used to fund their operations.

    And that article won't load for me.

    So should we be asking is it strange that you have appear to have a subscription to Waste Recycling Materials website??? Bit of a random choice for a news article to cite.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Sorry about that, it was the only link I could find that confirmed talks with the department as you have outlined.

    You can be asking if you like but it's a thing of nothing 🙂

    I don't have a subscription to the website.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I just saw your edit.

    I suppose it's possible that discussions broke down and they are all going their own way but I think it's unlikely.

    I think it would suit them better to stick together.

    As I've posted here before it's my opinion that the consumer should not be on the hook for any compensation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,784 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    I saw an article complaining about the bottle tops being awkward to take off, it is annoying , a step too far

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,474 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    What do you expect them to do if the Minister is just fobbing them off?

    And if the Minister is fobbing them off, it is he who has determined that the consumer will be on the hook for the compensation.

    He can't pretend this lost revenue is some invention of the waste companies, when it is specified as one of the categories of funding for the Return scheme.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,632 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    They are tethered to the bottle to stop you taking them off.

    That way they get recycled with the bottle instead of ending up as litter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,454 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Whatever private company put up their charges, they must not be in the IWMA.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2024-07-10/23/ (10 July 2024).

    "The Department is currently engaging with the Irish Waste Management Association (IWMA) and other stakeholders such as REPAK – to quantify what substantive impact, if any, the introduction of the Deposit Return Scheme (DRS) will have on the waste collection system in Ireland over the longer term."



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