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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The World Cup is 3 years away, if you are just going to discuss the World Cup on every post its going to be a long long 3 years

    😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    The whole internet read your deleted post. You cannot say you're arguing in good faith. Great to see how you feel when the mask drops though..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You probably could select with the World Cup in mind in the case of Healy and Murray - two bench players - with minimal impact on the chances of actually winning versus SA. Promote the third choices to the bench - Loughman/O'Toole at loosehead, and Casey at scrumhalf, and select a high potential emergent player who you project to be there or thereabouts as a potential first XXIII player come 2027 as the back-up, third choice option. They likely wouldn't actually see gametime, as it's only two matches, but could benefit from being brought into the set-up.

    If selecting a high potential young player such as Paddy McCarthy or Matthew Devine would complicate things because they're expected to start back training ahead of next season sooner then you could just pick more established players as third choices - have Loughman and O'Toole as the reserves behind Porter, and perhaps Doak instead of Murray.

    There's a good argument for it. You have to move on at some point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I'd say the time to start moving on in terms of the selected starting 15 and bench will be directly after the New Zealand match in November. The teams facing Argentina and Fiji in particular should have some new blood in them.
    The point about giving Loughman and Casey game time off the bench instead of Healy and Murray is valid though, depends if the coaches see an equivalency in terms of ability and impact. If Healy and Murray offer a bit more impact off the bench then they hold their spots.
    I'd expect to see a few new faces being called into the training camp in October with a view to breaking into the 23 against Argentina or Fiji in particular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    The squad for the South Africa tour could be something like this:
    LP: Porter, Healy, Loughman
    HK: Sheehan, Kelleher, Herring
    TP: Furlong, Bealham, Jager/O'Toole
    TL: McCarthy, Ryan
    LL: Beirne, Ahern
    BF: O'Mahony, Baird
    OF: Van der Flier, Timoney/Connors
    N8: Doris, Conan
    SH: Gibson-Park, Murray, Casey
    OH: Crowley, Frawley, H Byrne/R Byrne
    LW: Lowe, Stockdale
    IC: Aki, McCloskey
    OC: Ringrose, Henshaw
    RW: Nash, Larmour
    FB: O'Brien
    Utility: Osborne
    I'd say Osborne will replace Ringrose if he doesn't show fitness by the end of this season. Otherwise he is either a utility back or next in line to be called up if needed.
    There's a possible toss-up between Stockdale and Larmour, if so I'd go with Larmour.
    I'd choose H Byrne, Timoney and Jager over R Byrne, Connors and O'Toole respectively.
    A close call is Tom Stewart losing out to Herring.

    I can't see any surprises in the summer squad really.
    It's possibly a bit tough on Cian Prendergast if he doesn't get a spot but I think they'd prefer Ahern and Baird as lock/blind-side flanker cover, and Timoney as cover across all three positions in the back row.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,370 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Irish Rugby has a big problem at loosehead. Once you go past Porter the quality just isn't there.

    None of the current starting or replacement props at the provinces are good enough to be relied upon. Of the lot Healy is still probably the best and he's clearly nearing the end of his career.

    Might have to go to the newer generation of props like Milne of even Boyle before you get to someone who can possibly be trusted to bench ahead of Healy. And even then I have reservations about Milne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Milne's so dodgy in the scrum though. Loughman's miles ahead of him in that regard.

    Boyle is the perfect selection for the Emerging Ireland tour, it seems to me. It would leave Leinster working with Milne and McCarthy at the start of next season before the internationals filter back in, and the Ireland coaches get to integrate Boyle, who is currently behind Milne but probably a better prospect right now due to Milne's poor scrummaging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    We might see O'Toole get his first outing at LH.

    Can't see Treadwell still on the cards - he's been very quiet this season, possibly leapfrogged by Sheridan at Ulster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I'd say the time to start moving on in terms of the selected starting 15 and bench will be directly after the New Zealand match in November. The teams facing Argentina and Fiji in particular should have some new blood in them.

    Nah because then we'll be told "we need to prepare for the 6N, so we can't experiment"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I agree. I suspect Razzmatazz will quietly shuffle his deck. No harm in given Casey/Bealham/Ahern the reins.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Murray and Healy should not be included on the tour. I would look at Loughman and Casey. I'd go as far as to start both of them in one of the tests.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    POM is still a huge leadership presence for Munster, he's still the guy everyone looks to for on field decisions and is apparently still the most vocal voice behind the scenes. His performances this season have been more understated but I never felt as if he was playing poorly, certainly for Munster I wouldn't dream of playing a knockout game with Ahern ahead of him who's still learning at this level.

    We have to move on from POM at some stage but think he'd leave a big leadership void at present. The hope was probably for Doris to advance his claim as a leader and captain but that aspect seemed to be heavily criticised by BOD this week so it would appear he's not yet ready.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭50HX




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This stuff is just entirely in your head. It has already been highlighted that Ireland capped more new players in the last RWC cycle than SA but then the goalposts instantly shifted.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Not sure that proves anything on its own timoney gettin motm vs fiji and then getting thrown down a well looks great but aint it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Last time we played Fiji, three players made their debuts, JOB and Deegan got their second caps, Timoney got his third, even Baloucoune got a start and there were plenty more fringe guys involved

    Nothing breeds resentment like success



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,491 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Does anyone have a list of the current first choice 23 (or some permutation of it) and the teams they made their debuts against?

    I'm wondering did many come through gradually against the US, Fiji, Samoa or moreso 6N games and summer tours.

    Edit: might as not be lazy and do it myself.

    Porter - USA

    Sheehan - Japan

    Furlong - Wales (WC warm up)

    Beirne - Australia summer tour

    Ryan - USA / McCarthy Australia AI

    POM - Italy 6N

    VDF - England 6N

    Doris - Scotland 6N

    JGP - Italy 6N

    Crowley - Fiji

    Lowe - Wales COVID Cup

    Aki - South Africa AI

    Ringrose - Canada / Henshaw - USA

    Hansen - Wales 6N

    Keenan - Italy 6N

    Post edited by pickarooney on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,555 ✭✭✭✭phog


    No, it can be dislike or Hate or Despise.

    Group think or be accused of hating the national coach and team. Sad really.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,062 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    ..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,966 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    List of internationals, with their debuts is here if someone fancied putting it together:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ireland_national_rugby_union_players

    EDIT: just threw the 15 together, I think it's right:

    Player

    Debut

    Tournament

    1

    Porter

    USA

    Summer

    2

    Sheehan

    Japan

    AI

    3

    Furlong

    Wales

    RWC Warm-UP

    4

    McCarthy

    Australia

    AI

    5

    Beirne

    Australia

    Summer

    6

    POM

    Italy

    6N

    7

    VDF

    England

    6N

    8

    Doris

    Scotland

    6N

    9

    JGP

    Italy

    ANC

    10

    Crowley

    Fiji

    AI

    11

    Lowe

    Wales

    ANC

    12

    Aki

    South Africa

    AI

    13

    Henshaw

    USA

    Summer

    14

    Hansen

    Wales

    6N

    15

    Keenan

    Italy

    ANC



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,555 ✭✭✭✭phog


    This post, before the edit reminded me of PJ Mara's “Uno duce, una voce”

    1717018444436.jpg

    Mod: warned

    Post edited by Podge_irl on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MOD: I have no idea what on earth this is, but cut it out.

    There is an awful lot of childish nonsense going on here lately.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,983 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Is there any indication where Ireland will tour in summer 2025 during the Lions tour? Some Tests against Argentina, Fiji or Japan would would be a good challenge for an Irish side probably missing nearly all of their first XV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Yeah those would make for a good challenge. You could do a tour of the islands and play Samoa, Tonga and Fiji.

    If they go to Argentina I'd like to see someone like Chile or Uruguay get a game too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,370 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Jimmy O'Brien has returned at just the right time for Ireland. He's one of Leinster's best performers in recent weeks and the ideal replacement for Keenan. He's probably faster than the latter as well so that gives a boost to our backline which isn't the quickest.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    He’s looked electric since coming back. I don’t recall him being that fast before his injury. Always had him in the footballer mould aka Hansen with decent pace but great to see he’s able to hammer the gas down.


    Great opportunity for him to put his hand up for the 15 jersey with Keenan out of the tour and Hansen looking like he’s struggling to get back to 100%. No need to rush him back for a 2 game summer tour although I’m sure he’ll want to get back playing so the season isn’t a complete write off for him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,370 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    JOB seems to have gotten faster. He's gassing defenders on the outside which we don't always see from Irish back three players.

    Keenan is the best full back in the world. He's at least an 8/10 in every attribute you want from a 15. In terms of replacements, I think JOB is about the closest we can get to replicating what Keenan brings. Solid passing and kicking game, decent in the air and has speed to take on defenders. We'll lose a bit in line running ability and in defensive reads, but those are what sets Keenan apart from every other 15 in the world.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Benjamin Cold Sorbet


    Some downright stupid comments from Damian de Allende to Rugbypass about SA's rivalry with Ireland. I dunno if they're doing this stuff to pump up the summer tour series, or what it is, but find some of his comments bizarre.

    Talks about how Andy Farrell is English, so doesn't understand Irish history, and that impacts his ability to connect with the players.

    He must have lived under a rock in his time in Ireland, because he also says he thinks Irish people aren't emotional and that impacts them in big moments.

    He dramatically overplays the "hardship" angle the SA squad supposedly have too - unquestionably a couple of guys like Makazole Mapimpi the prime example came from nothing and are incredibly admirable, but huge swathes of them are Boer farmers who grew up with anyone's definition of privilege.

    It's clear the media reaction after we beat them comfortably in 2017 still rankles them to a huge degree, and he obviously does have respect for some of the Irish players and aspects of our play, but some of his comments just show him to be incredibly uninformed IMO.

    Jim Hamilton talks a lot of hypocritical shite too - constantly highlighting guys like James Lowe etc as not being Irish. He's an Englishman who played for Scotland, a team stuffed to the brim with imports.

    The gushing praise in general for the Saffers and what they've achieved completely loses sight of how incredibly fortunate they've been along that journey:

    In 2019, they lost their only meaningful pool game against NZ. They emerged from a group containing Italy, Namibia and Canada. Their path then to win the RWC saw them get past Japan, Wales (barely) and a spent English team.

    In 2023 they lost their only meaningful pool game against us, and then robbed France in the QF with the benefit of an egregiously wrong late penalty (Kwagga Smith's midfield turnover), limped past a poor England side in the semis and then limped over the line 12-11 in the final against a NZ team who played 3/4 of the game with 14 men or less.

    Obviously finals and tournaments are for winning, and history just remembers the victors, but the 2015 All Blacks they very much ain't.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 33,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They're also fairly consistently underwhelming outside of those two tournaments. They threw a mad hissy fit about the World Rugby team of the year having so few saffers.

    I absolutely can't stand them as a team. This faux outrage bullshit clearly works for them to some degree but it makes them look like children.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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