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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Ahh …. is being in your 30's then the same thing as played 'enough rugby'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Motherfuckers who thought their ass would age like wine. If you mean it turns to vinegar, it does. If you mean it gets better with age, it don't. - Marcellus Wallace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,239 ✭✭✭✭phog


    You told me in a Pvt Message that you aren't interested in any of my replies.

    If that is your view then the you're really only posting for point scoring and in view of your recent (now deleted) post on how you view anyone from Munster this will be my last reply to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,721 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Anyway. If we assume a 33-man squad, it could look something like this;

    Porter, Healy, Loughman, Furlong, Bealham, Jager, Sheehan, Kelleher, Herring

    Ryan, Beirne, McCarthy, Murray/Ahern/Treadwell

    Doris, VDF, Baird, Conan, Prendergast, POM/Ahern/Hodnett

    JGP, Murray, Casey

    Crowley, R Byrne, Frawley

    Aki, Henshaw, McCloskey, Ringrose/Osborne

    Lowe, Nash, JOB, Hansen/Larmour

    So I reckon the only calls are

    • who replaces Henderson, is Ahern viewed as a lock or a 6? Do we move on from Treadwell?
    • will POM travel or is he retiring from tests?
    • Are Ringrose and Hansen going to be fit?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,966 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I don't think POM was as good as he has been last season. Baird and Ahern were both better than him this year imo, and there's also Prendergast. I feel like this is the time to move on from him. He's only going to trend down, and we have excellent replacements.

    Likewise, I don't think we should take both of Murray and Casey. Doak would be a call for the future, or Cooney outright based on form, if we're wanting an old head. Murray should be retired period.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Youre very upset just because you were asked to explain your point of view, by others mind, not me. Thats quite a strange stance to take on a public discussion forum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Jesus Christ if the likes of Healy, POM and Murray go on this tour then we deserve every bit of quarter final misery we get



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I reckon you're a back three player short (Stockdale) and a backrower heavy. Farrell likes going with only one openside, and you don't need three 6s or 8s. I can't see them phasing out O'Mahony yet considering he was captain for the 6N and looking at how Earls was kept on. Farrell sees the squad harmony/morale positive as outweighing the negative of an aging player maybe not quite being there purely based on playing merit. And POM probably isn't even at that stage yet.

    I'm interested to see where Tom O'Toole is in the pecking order. He's been a bit of a pet project for Farrell over the last three or four seasons, but is he now behind Jager? Does he switch to loosehead? Farrell's gone with only 5 props in squads before, and he doesn't seem especially keen on Loughman, so maybe they just go with the props that make the XXIII and O'Toole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The World Cup is 3 years away, if you are just going to discuss the World Cup on every post its going to be a long long 3 years

    😂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,102 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    The whole internet read your deleted post. You cannot say you're arguing in good faith. Great to see how you feel when the mask drops though..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    You probably could select with the World Cup in mind in the case of Healy and Murray - two bench players - with minimal impact on the chances of actually winning versus SA. Promote the third choices to the bench - Loughman/O'Toole at loosehead, and Casey at scrumhalf, and select a high potential emergent player who you project to be there or thereabouts as a potential first XXIII player come 2027 as the back-up, third choice option. They likely wouldn't actually see gametime, as it's only two matches, but could benefit from being brought into the set-up.

    If selecting a high potential young player such as Paddy McCarthy or Matthew Devine would complicate things because they're expected to start back training ahead of next season sooner then you could just pick more established players as third choices - have Loughman and O'Toole as the reserves behind Porter, and perhaps Doak instead of Murray.

    There's a good argument for it. You have to move on at some point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I'd say the time to start moving on in terms of the selected starting 15 and bench will be directly after the New Zealand match in November. The teams facing Argentina and Fiji in particular should have some new blood in them.
    The point about giving Loughman and Casey game time off the bench instead of Healy and Murray is valid though, depends if the coaches see an equivalency in terms of ability and impact. If Healy and Murray offer a bit more impact off the bench then they hold their spots.
    I'd expect to see a few new faces being called into the training camp in October with a view to breaking into the 23 against Argentina or Fiji in particular.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    The squad for the South Africa tour could be something like this:
    LP: Porter, Healy, Loughman
    HK: Sheehan, Kelleher, Herring
    TP: Furlong, Bealham, Jager/O'Toole
    TL: McCarthy, Ryan
    LL: Beirne, Ahern
    BF: O'Mahony, Baird
    OF: Van der Flier, Timoney/Connors
    N8: Doris, Conan
    SH: Gibson-Park, Murray, Casey
    OH: Crowley, Frawley, H Byrne/R Byrne
    LW: Lowe, Stockdale
    IC: Aki, McCloskey
    OC: Ringrose, Henshaw
    RW: Nash, Larmour
    FB: O'Brien
    Utility: Osborne
    I'd say Osborne will replace Ringrose if he doesn't show fitness by the end of this season. Otherwise he is either a utility back or next in line to be called up if needed.
    There's a possible toss-up between Stockdale and Larmour, if so I'd go with Larmour.
    I'd choose H Byrne, Timoney and Jager over R Byrne, Connors and O'Toole respectively.
    A close call is Tom Stewart losing out to Herring.

    I can't see any surprises in the summer squad really.
    It's possibly a bit tough on Cian Prendergast if he doesn't get a spot but I think they'd prefer Ahern and Baird as lock/blind-side flanker cover, and Timoney as cover across all three positions in the back row.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,972 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Irish Rugby has a big problem at loosehead. Once you go past Porter the quality just isn't there.

    None of the current starting or replacement props at the provinces are good enough to be relied upon. Of the lot Healy is still probably the best and he's clearly nearing the end of his career.

    Might have to go to the newer generation of props like Milne of even Boyle before you get to someone who can possibly be trusted to bench ahead of Healy. And even then I have reservations about Milne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Milne's so dodgy in the scrum though. Loughman's miles ahead of him in that regard.

    Boyle is the perfect selection for the Emerging Ireland tour, it seems to me. It would leave Leinster working with Milne and McCarthy at the start of next season before the internationals filter back in, and the Ireland coaches get to integrate Boyle, who is currently behind Milne but probably a better prospect right now due to Milne's poor scrummaging.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    We might see O'Toole get his first outing at LH.

    Can't see Treadwell still on the cards - he's been very quiet this season, possibly leapfrogged by Sheridan at Ulster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    I'd say the time to start moving on in terms of the selected starting 15 and bench will be directly after the New Zealand match in November. The teams facing Argentina and Fiji in particular should have some new blood in them.

    Nah because then we'll be told "we need to prepare for the 6N, so we can't experiment"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I agree. I suspect Razzmatazz will quietly shuffle his deck. No harm in given Casey/Bealham/Ahern the reins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Murray and Healy should not be included on the tour. I would look at Loughman and Casey. I'd go as far as to start both of them in one of the tests.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    POM is still a huge leadership presence for Munster, he's still the guy everyone looks to for on field decisions and is apparently still the most vocal voice behind the scenes. His performances this season have been more understated but I never felt as if he was playing poorly, certainly for Munster I wouldn't dream of playing a knockout game with Ahern ahead of him who's still learning at this level.

    We have to move on from POM at some stage but think he'd leave a big leadership void at present. The hope was probably for Doris to advance his claim as a leader and captain but that aspect seemed to be heavily criticised by BOD this week so it would appear he's not yet ready.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭50HX




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This stuff is just entirely in your head. It has already been highlighted that Ireland capped more new players in the last RWC cycle than SA but then the goalposts instantly shifted.



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull


    Not sure that proves anything on its own timoney gettin motm vs fiji and then getting thrown down a well looks great but aint it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,721 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Last time we played Fiji, three players made their debuts, JOB and Deegan got their second caps, Timoney got his third, even Baloucoune got a start and there were plenty more fringe guys involved

    Nothing breeds resentment like success



  • Posts: 10,091 ✭✭✭✭ Alessandro Vast Numskull




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,370 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Does anyone have a list of the current first choice 23 (or some permutation of it) and the teams they made their debuts against?

    I'm wondering did many come through gradually against the US, Fiji, Samoa or moreso 6N games and summer tours.

    Edit: might as not be lazy and do it myself.

    Porter - USA

    Sheehan - Japan

    Furlong - Wales (WC warm up)

    Beirne - Australia summer tour

    Ryan - USA / McCarthy Australia AI

    POM - Italy 6N

    VDF - England 6N

    Doris - Scotland 6N

    JGP - Italy 6N

    Crowley - Fiji

    Lowe - Wales COVID Cup

    Aki - South Africa AI

    Ringrose - Canada / Henshaw - USA

    Hansen - Wales 6N

    Keenan - Italy 6N

    Post edited by pickarooney on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,239 ✭✭✭✭phog


    No, it can be dislike or Hate or Despise.

    Group think or be accused of hating the national coach and team. Sad really.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,721 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    ..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    List of internationals, with their debuts is here if someone fancied putting it together:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ireland_national_rugby_union_players

    EDIT: just threw the 15 together, I think it's right:

    Player

    Debut

    Tournament

    1

    Porter

    USA

    Summer

    2

    Sheehan

    Japan

    AI

    3

    Furlong

    Wales

    RWC Warm-UP

    4

    McCarthy

    Australia

    AI

    5

    Beirne

    Australia

    Summer

    6

    POM

    Italy

    6N

    7

    VDF

    England

    6N

    8

    Doris

    Scotland

    6N

    9

    JGP

    Italy

    ANC

    10

    Crowley

    Fiji

    AI

    11

    Lowe

    Wales

    ANC

    12

    Aki

    South Africa

    AI

    13

    Henshaw

    USA

    Summer

    14

    Hansen

    Wales

    6N

    15

    Keenan

    Italy

    ANC



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