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N17 - Knock to Collooney [design & planning underway]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Westernview


    That's right. The planned improvements between Charlestown and Collooney may lead to an even more dangerous road. If the reason for making the N5 Westport to Turlough Type 2 DC was safety rather than volume then surely the same criteria applies to the N17.

    The problem is though - the N5 is a an entirely new route that has eliminated all the direct access from private houses and has also minimised the amount of side road junctions. Can an online upgrade of the N17 achieve the same safety standard regardless of the carriageway type?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    2021 figures from RSA said 38% of people involved in fatal incidents tested positive for alcohol intoxication, and in the news this week, RSA were saying that drink- and drug- driving are rising, so no, drink driving isn't something they can divert enforcement away from.

    While on one hand younger people seem to be drinking less than previous generations did; on the other, they're actually more likely to drive after drinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭corm500


    This is a result of the thinking of Minister Ryan. He has said on more than one occasion that he is ok with bypasses if absolutely necessary but nothing more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Oh come on. Eamon Ryan isn't making people get in their cars while drunk. Or forcing them to operate their phones while driving, or drive faster than the safe speed (yes, speed does kill.. it turns survivable accidents into fatal ones)

    Also, if your look at where accidents are, many are on stretches of road that are in good condition. I saw two over the last few days on N25: both happened in good driving conditions on stretches of road with good alignment and long sightlines. I hope neither caused serious injury, but I couldn't see how the road was a factor in either of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    I wonder would these bypasses be built to the same standard as to what the entire length should be i.e Type2 DC? So when the entire length is finally done its all the same standard. Or will they do more SC?

    Also I cant believe the south Sligo section is being put on the back burner - its absolutely shocking.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The chosen cross-section depends entirely on forecasted demand. There seems to be this odd misconception that roads have to be the same cross-section for their entire length. It is just not true. Sometimes an intermediate very low traffic section may be built at higher capacity for reasons of continuity (e.g. Type 1 single between two stretches of Type 2 dual, even though traffic volumes would only support Type 2 single), but that's only when the two stretches either side are very busy. N17 doesn't fit this pattern: the further north you go, the quieter it gets.

    However, any national primary roads built as SC now are protected from having new entrances added, and will have bridge spans and land-take wide enough to facilitate future conversion to 2+2 if that's needed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    The condition of the surface of the N17 from Templehouse to Ballinacarrow is degrading rapidly. It needs attention.

    I was driving on the N5 from Frenchpark to Strokestown. Its hard to believe the N17 is 80km/h and this stretch is 100km/h. There are more bends and they're far sharper than the N17. Is it a council decision or NRA to reduce speed limits on National roads?



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Until the new bridges you mention are constructed, and therefore eliminating right hand turns, it's difficult to see much of a reduction in roads deaths. The standard SC as it currently stands is not safe by today's standards.

    Thankfully that section will be bypassed soon. Long overdue.

    The existing road will probably then be recategorised as a regional road with a lower speed limit.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The section from Templehouse to Ballinacarrow has been effectively frozen going by this years allocations.

    It’s just Tobercurry and Charlestown bypasses proceeding for now.

    Then again, an election isn’t too far away either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Yeah I meant the N5 section. Looks like it will be a long time befor Templehouse to Ballinacarrow is done. Even Charlestown-Tobercurry is going at snails pace.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Nothing odd about it at all. Long distance drivers usually pick a speed and stick to it, so they need to be allowed overtaking opportunities even on quiet sections. This is particularly the case for trucks who are mandated to drive at a lower speed than non-truck traffic.

    Consistent road standard allows for predictable journey times which has economic and even some social benefits.

    As for new SCs having enough land to allow dualling, this rarely happens in practice as you would have to do it entirely for traffic volume reasons (not safety ones) and it would be hard to get through approval for environmental reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    @spacetweek The bridge on the recent N17 Lisduff works was built with a span wide enough for the N17 beneath it to be widened to 2+2 in future.

    We agree that dualling will only ever happen for traffic reasons, but the 2+2 is more compatible with environmental goals than a motorway, as the permitted speed does not increase.

    As for HGVs, they are speed limited to 80 except on motorways, so whether a road is single or 2+2 shouldn't matter: both types are design limited to 100 km/h. (There are no situations where a road choice would be between Type 1 dual or Type 1 single).



  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭steeler j


    Hgvs are 90 on motorway, 80 on national roads . No difference in speed for a truck from single to 2+2 apart from safer and more time reliable



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Yep, and the law says "Motorway", not "road with 120 km/h limit", so on the Western and Eastern approaches to Cork city, which are basically motorways without the blue signs the limit for HGVs is still only 80 km/h



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 51,477 Mod ✭✭✭✭Necro


    Unfortunately we'll be waiting until after the local elections for even resurfacing works I'd expect. But it's something I'll be bringing up when they doorstep me for certain, the road is an absolute mess.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    It's an awful pity, the NDP as outlined in 2018 sought to correct many of the deficiencies on long distance interurban roads. The N2, N4, N17 and N24 were to be absolutely transformed by said plan. It's a pity the party of joyless dweebs have it ruined. Hopefully some parts of it can be restarted in the future.

    I won't address the drunk driving argument as it's off topic for this thread, but a quick bit of research into enforcement would give large clues as to why road deaths are going in the wrong direction. We don't need new laws, we just need adequate enforcement of existing laws.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Was on the N17 from Sligo to Claremorris two weeks for the first time in approx. 6 months - even in that space of time the deterioration in the surface is very noticeable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Westernview




  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    Local Councillor Martin Connolly announced on his social media account upgrades to the Cashel south junction on the N17 south of Tubbercurry and the Tobertelly junction on the n17 north of Tubbercurry today. I don't know anymore details.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Another crash today - this time south of Claremorris. No word yet on how serious but road is closed with diversions in place.

    If traffic numbers continue to grow this road will see a lot more serious accidents.

    *Update - woman in 50s killed

    Post edited by Westernview on


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    Another accident today. When does this get embarrassing for the government?

    https://www.oceanfm.ie/2024/05/27/woman-sustains-non-life-threatening-injuries-in-n17-crash/



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,874 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    That clown was ranting about land being CPO'd last year, now he wants a motorway which will require an enormous landtake along the entire route. He says "land was purchased to accommodate the intersection of the N5 and the new M17 at Charlestown" which is complete nonsense, there is nothing close to the space required for a motorway junction in state ownership there.

    Some people will say anything for publicity. Pure populism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Type 2 DC the only option to make this increasingly busy arterial route safe. Junction improvements, enforcement and other measures will reduce accidents but only a separating median barrier will bring it to the required standard. Probably won't be done though so we can expect fatalities to continue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    I agree type 2 like what’s between Westport and Turlough is what’s needed from Tuam to Collooney and it’s my understanding that’s the road type currently proposed?



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Unfortunately not. Has been downgraded from an initial motorway proposal (not sure how serious that proposal was) to DC to single carriageway and finally to intermittent sections of new SC.



  • Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭corm500


    This is what happens when you have a Green Party minister as the minister for Transport. Its kind of like having a fox in charge of the chicken coop



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭serfboard


    In your opinion, should this road have received higher priority than Westport - Turlough? I think that it should have. Yet, Westport - Turlough got built first.

    Why do you suppose that was?

    You'd have to be looking to spread the blame for why this road isn't done to a few more people than just Eamon Ryan.



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