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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I'm sure they wouldn't. It may not be their choice in any case if the Russians make it to the city.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Good point, why are Russians still allowed into Europe?


    There was an article today about how there are Russian nuclear technicians still working in Germany on their plants, I mean if that doesn’t ring alarm bells what will



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    You can talk and compare economy size as much as you want. In this case it is irrelevant.

    To illustrate imagine western economy as a fancy penthouse apartments with top of the notch kitchen when russian is just a small farmhouse out in the sticks. It sure look that way, however, while your kitchen may be top notch you cant cook a meal before you go out and buy all ingredients you need. Not to mention you will have to hire someone who can cook it for you since you forgot how to do it yourself. There was quite a big arms industry in Czechoslovakia for example but it got dismantled, sold off and liquidated right after colour revolution as it was in direct competition with the usa. All of that skilled personnel left, schools closed and factories crumbled. This was the case with all ex-eastern bloc countries and I bet that they are now feeling sorry that happened.

    That farmhouse out there is much better off as it sits on farmland which provide all they need and in abundance.

    There are very little minerals left to exploit and use in the west which are needed for arms production and some of the most crucial needed are being sourced from china. A lot of green red tape will have to be dismantled in order to restart any remaining mining industry and even then it will take a years to accomplish. Not to mention that arms production is energy heavy and solar or wind are not going to cut it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,376 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Lol. How can the Czech's profit off it exactly? Only people I could (conceivably) see profiting (dishonestly) are countries that get money and then don't deliver or deliver rubbish.

    You are quite the cynic with a pretty diseased view of the world. Everyone is on the take eh, everyone is dirty and "grafting". Very Russian, to nationally stereotype.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    You do realise that likes of Rheinmetal are building factories in Ukraine itself right?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,431 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Another day. Another arms dump.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    If you think that refugees who run away from conflicts in their own country would find it more attractive to be enlisted and fight in another country military conflict then good luck to you. Not to mention that 9 out of 10 refugees are actually economic migrants I seriously doubt they would find Bakhmut more appealing than Rwanda no matter how much would you offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,849 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Philosophical scenarios aside, I think there is zero chance something like this happens for a couple of reasons:

    1. No western country would send men, against their will, to a country where they're going to be conscripted (It's one of the reasons why migrants don't get send back to Eritrea). Even if the politicians decided to do it, it would almost certainly be blocked in the courts.
    2. It wouldn't be in Ukraine's interest from a PR point of view to make veiled threats against EU member nations. Zelensky understands this kind of thing innately and has been very successful in that area. Trying to strong-arm countries into doing something that large portions of their public would find morally unconscionable would be a sure-fire way to permanently burn any support they have in those countries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    The fact that thousands are willingly going to fight for Russia for much less and will not live long enough to gain Russian citizenship never mind enjoy their roubles is a direct counterpoint to your post.

    If someone is an economic migrant then make it clear their choices are be sent back or hey what about this economic and citizenship opportunity here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,304 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Oh sorry I had no idea you are full of holy spirit living in a land of unicorns and fairies.

    They introduced this scheme where they posed as intermediaries. Wanting to collect money supposedly knowing where supplies are and even claimed they can procure that amount. Guess what happened? When they were pressed into revealing sellers or directly connect buyer with sellers suddenly there was nowhere near what was promised so very little money fell in that trap.

    Explain to me how intermediary profit in any business if standard definition of intermediary is diseased view in your opinion.

    Everyone who can including ukrainians are trying to profit from this conflict. It was illustrated time and again like when us decided not to build tank repair shops in poland because what poles asked for it was beyond ridiculous.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Deub


    It will be my last reply on this topic. You said you asked the same question than the OP and you were “censored”. I was just pointing out you didn’t ask that question. Your point was totally different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,681 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭zv2


    @zerosquared "The fact that thousands are willingly going to fight for Russia"

    Most of them are convinced they are natural born drone dodgers.

    It looks like history is starting up again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,087 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Russia is producing around 3 million shells per year (it has it's own looming issues with maintaining that level of production). It's military is centered around artillery.

    Europe, which has been asleep since WW2, has woken up slightly, and current projections are for shell production to increase to around 2 million per year by end of next year.

    The US is on target for 1.2 million shells per year next summer (est. up to 100k per month, tripling current production)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    *Russia “claims” to produce 3 million shells a year



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,110 ✭✭✭yagan


    I really do wonder how much Russia has left in the tank (pardon the pun), but since footage of troops making their way to the front on scrambler bikes and unarmoured dessert cross vehicles you do wonder if all they've left is belief.

    The saying goes every army is ready for the last war, and it seems that Russia was prepared for a war from the last century when borders were drawn by where tanks stopped rolling. They're having multi million dollar tanks being destroyed by $50 grenades dropped from drones adapted from the type of drone kits you'd get in the middle isle of aldi/lidl.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭threeball


    I'd say the economist that replaced him is more likely to meet his demise than Shoigu. He'll be blamed for failure of the war due to his cutbacks and they'll off him. Shoigu will be feathering Putins nest from elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,376 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Well you would say I am an idealist from your perspective! Almost anyone would be I think going by your "output" on here.

    It is not a normal business deal though is it? It is not comparable to what was going on with that tank maintenance facility in Poland either. The Czechs are more of a diplomatic itermediary here I think.

    If the shells don't come there will be no money paid I assume. Even if they do come I think we'd need more specifics on how the grafting/thieving Czechs profit from it (other than potentially helping Ukraine survive, hard to value but definitely worth something to the Czech govt.?)

    If the shells do materialise, you are never going to get some kind of offical confirmation of names of all of these countries/details of what is going on. They don't want to anger Russia. That is the whole point of all this obscurity around it. In addition I would say Russia would be working overtime trying to persuade any country with shells who is neutral to either stay out of this "scheme", or preferably, if they can be fired from Russia's guns, to supply them to their military instead!

    How in the hell do Ukrainians "profit" off having the Russian army f-ck up their country and murder their people? That is quite some statement, and a real headscratcher.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,131 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    Ay Russian's have a great "farm" surely. It's just they need contractors to actually farm it.

    Without western help, infrastructure and technology in refineries and gas extraction, piping and advanced mining techniques they'll have to turn even more to China.

    The Chinese won't be making that a remotely fair deal for Russia though. They'll fillet the Russian economy and leave the Russian's with a few crumbs.

    It'll make western petrol chemical arrangements/development look like charity by comparison.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    I suspect the economist is there to start finding out where the money is gone? Its no secret that everyone slices a piece off the top, but at Shoigu's level he should have the most possible visibility to understand this. You put a square peg in a square hole, if you just wanted someone to put in better tactics, you'd get a military expert. If you put in a financial expert, you have to assume he's finally hit the point where the corruption is too expensive to ignore and he needs to start rooting it out.

    I'm guessing he'll be there for a few months at best, have a report of where the funds have been skimmed from, and then someone to actively stamp out all this will be put in place instead.

    But then I didn't think he'd invade in the first place, so I'm obviously not in sync with the man



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    A better analogy would be if Russia was the largest cabbage farmer but was unable to grow much else and spent their whole time talking about how much cabbage they were producing and how jealous the rest of the world was and that the Wests inability to supply as much cabbage shows their inability to grow food. And when the West points out that it has a cornucopia of other foodstuffs and cabbage, while essential roughage, really isnt the only thing you should eat all day every day, Russia ignores this because it goes against the cabbage obsession they have bet their house on. Its more like that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,699 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,681 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Kite flying I wonder or are European nations sensing great danger and things need to change

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    They're emptying the tank every week but the catch is they refill it the week after.

    Let's say for example (made up numbers) they produce 30 New tanks in a month. They'll all be sent to the front and destroyed. Let's say they refurbish 300 T64/72/80 tanks a month they're all sent to the front and destroyed.

    Every month the stock pile of tanks to refurbish gets smaller. They'll be prioritising those in better condition which take less work. Some will be sent for upgrades and a new paint job.

    Could be 2 years but eventually they'll be down to T64/55 plus whatever new tanks they can produce. Same logic goes for artillery and IFV/APC's.

    They already can't meet the monthly needs hence why you see golf buggies and dirt bikes but they'll still have a certain amount of these weapons for a few years yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭Field east


    I think that the up to date figure is 4,500,000 +++++ per year !!!!!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    4,500,000 cabbages per year from the Eastern field alone 😂

    I would love to know what outlandish reports Shoigu sent to Putin for years about state of Russian equipment and military, and how the hell he stayed alive this long



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,376 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Not necessarily. I would speculate Ukraine's military collapsing (in part) and larger Russian gains being made after all that has happened since 2022 may now be unacceptable to a number of them in NATO bordering Russia (regardless what Biden + US thinks and what the US are willing to accept as an outcome, vs the risks of intervening more strongly/getting deeper involved).

    When push comes to shove, if Ukraine doesn't have enough soldiers, they may start sending people to help behind the lines (hence these kinds of comments and kite flying).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,061 ✭✭✭Polar101


    The Estonian army has, what, 4000-5000 active personnel. So if they sent troops, it would only be a token force at best. Sending troops would only make sense if everyone else did the same, but there are no signs of that kind of thing happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    This has been known for some time the Ukrainians are out of men, they have been taking very high losses in the past 24 hours. That's why quite a quite a few retired generals from NATO countries came out in recent months and said their armies are not ready. Behind the scenes all sides realise a sudden collapse of Ukrainian lines is likely. The Russians have geared up for a protracted war, there is no alternative to victory for the Putin regime, they are all in, the inheritors of the KGB security state are now firmly in charge in Russia (Stalin reign v2.0). They will push and secure the Donbass region before the American elections in November.

    NATO governments must either commit or reach an accommodation with the Russians, as some Americans are fond of saying, go big or go home. With all the elections in play , their hands are somewhat tied, substantial parts of Ukrainian lines may not hold that long.


    The Kharkov offensive and the replacement of Shoigu as Defense Minister

    A make-over is all the more timely now that the Defense budget has ballooned out to over $118 billion, representing more than a third of the total state budget.  What is needed at the top is an effective business manager and all indications are that this is precisely what Belousov will be. 
    <snip>

    Whether the Russians will actually take Kharkov is unclear, though might be said to be unlikely. Instead, the Russians may very well now stage a big offensive to take Chasiv Yar, the contested city west of Avdeevka that is the gateway to Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. That would assure the conquest of the entire Donetsk region.   No amount of of artillery shells or HIMARS or ATACMS now  being delivered by the US will change the situation: the Ukrainians are short of men. Period. source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Why would NATO governments “reach accommodation with Russia” if they are not fighting Russia in first place?

    Or you gonna tell us how 450,000 Russians died gloriously in a war with NATO who suffered zero casualties



This discussion has been closed.
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