General British politics discussion thread

Perhaps. But neither he nor Brown were too bothered when Labour party members left the party when Blair decided to lie about WMDs in Iraq so he could pursue Bush's war there. Perhaps he, pragmatically, thought he could get some lucrative oil deals out of it. I still remember Robin Cook's polite dressing down of Blair when he resigned.

Blair's a slippery snake, there's no doubt about it.

And those folk are distinctly incapable of making any kind of reasoned judgement and prefer to deal in meaningless soundbites.

If you say so.

Blair obviously and justifiably has the massive black mark of Iraq, but
that simply isn't a left/right thing. He was wrong and deserves
opprobrium for it.

Blair's lies about Iraq and his kow-towing to the likes of George Bush is not just a black mark. It's the mark of someone that has a lot of blood on their hands.

However, the NHS was better funded and worked better under him, schools
worked better, infrastructure was better invested in. It was also the
only break in 45 years of Conservative-led government. If the people
don't want the "old Labour" you pine for then you have to meet them at a
point you can get elected to actually accomplish something.

Blair was eager to hock more and more of the NHS out to private concerns. Just because it was working "better" under him than it was under the Tories (a party that wants to see it destroyed) won't change that. He's still interested in seeing private, for profit, concerns being involved in it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/05/tony-blair-urges-expanded-role-for-private-sector-as-nhs-turns-75

I get that nobody is all that keen on Starmer but he's better than what we have at the moment.

Pfft. That's like saying do you want a broken arm or a broken leg.

And the ONLY reason why the likes of Starmer has a shot is because the current Tory bunch have been such a disaster that people are willing to have a punt on him. Starmer's not doing anything of note here. He's just taking advantage of an opportunity that's been given to him on a plate.

Once he gets into power and found out, the Tories will be back in again.

Utter nonsense. Waiting till January will do nothing to change the result.

Except maybe making it worse for the Tories.

It's not that "simple" at all. Labour aren't getting into power because of anything they've done. The getting into power because of what the Tories have done.

Don't be making the mistake that just because Labour will, more than likely, be in No.10 next year that it's down to them. They're merely riding the crest of a wave set forth by a litany of disastrous Tory "leadership".

Oh for sure. Once Blair and Brown showed themselves for what they were, it was almost inevitable that there was going to be a switch. And the same will happen in another few years with Starmer's Labour.

He basically campaigned as an Independent despite being a Tory Lord.

This will be spun as proof of "turning the corner" despite it being as much of a reduction in majority as expected, if not more. He had 72.8% last time.

A 16.5% swing to Labour.

Now that he is elected he is of course backing Sunak despite doing his best to keep the man away from his campaign.

No surprise considering Labour are supporting the slaughter in Gaza

The breakdowns of the "NOC holds" are worth looking at. Pretty much any NOC where Tories were the largest party they have now lost that spot.

Except Broxbourne which had 1/3 of seats up and all 9 Tories were re-elected to a council of 27 Tories and 3 Labour. Sounds like a horrendous place.

Reform have finally picked up a seat. In Hart where the Lib Dems have just become the largest party in an NOC council.

Labour have taken the new North East and York & North Yorkshire mayors posts.

you have your opinion, fair enough - my own take on it is that he will come out stronger with a manifesto when the election is called, he's currently holding his cards close to this chest so the tories don't do a tory and steal the manifesto.

in reality, there is nothing a party not in power can do, and you know this, everyone knows this, and if and when the tories get re-elected in one, two or three election cycles, it will likely be the same argument being put forward by labour supporters, which you are likely to be here refuting.

I notice you didn't answer my question though, is that normal for you? I'm new to this thread.

It's normal behaviour for an opposition party to publish a manifesto once the election is called - in non-electioneering time they are there to oppose and hold the government to account, something I think Starmer does pretty well at PMQ. He's not a showman, thank god, but he is a fairly analytical questioner and extracts answers that tie the PM up in knots, usually resulting in Rishi wittering about the member for Islington North, an independent MP

All the Tory ones of course