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30k speed limits for all urban areas on the way

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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,675 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Who said anything about cyclists?

    Well, you did. Quite frequently.

    BTW I'm certainly not the only pedestrian who has noticed lawbreaking by cyclists being rather commonplace.

    You're right, lawbreaking by cyclists is indeed commonplace, as is lawbreaking by motorists and lawbreaking by pedestrians. You frequently go to extensive lengths to excuse lawbreaking by motorists, which suggests that lawbreaking isn't really a big issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,485 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    what does the unused antiquated measurement have to do with anything exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I'm equally disgusted by the attitude that the small number of victims in these cases can be used as cudgels against millions of people who have nothing whatsoever to do with these incidents. That is, not even being involved, let alone culpable in any of them. At least that's what it looks like some are doing.

    All I'm looking for is proportionality. Wallpapering the country with 30kph speed limits is like using a wrecking ball to drive a nail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,675 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What's different about the driving of the people involved our growing (30% year on year increase) road deaths, the serious injuries that happen on our road every day, and your 'millions of people who have nothing whatsoever to do with these incidents'?



  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭loco_scolo


    They're not wallpapering the country with 30kph limits - it's urban areas. These places should be more friendly and safe for pedestrians, cyclists, kids, the elderly and everyone else in between.

    You seem to miss a key point in all of this - lower speed limits in urban areas makes streets safer, quieter, less polluted and nicer places to live, play in, eat in, socialise in.... build a proper community.

    In dense urban areas, average speeds are low anyway due to a high level of junctions. In small urban areas (a village or town), the lower limits will add a minute or less to driving times.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,230 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    If safety is a priority they should get everyone to slow down.

    30kph for cars and 10kph for bicycles and scooters.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,824 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Not sure if serious?



  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭migrant




  • Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭migrant


    I'm strongly in favour of lower, and more rigorously enforced, urban speed limits.

    I would suggest making the urban limit 30kph, putting up many many speed cameras and charging a simple fine to those who exceed it by less than 10kph An automatic charge of say €80, just to pay for the implementation. Proper criminal proceedings above that speed, with appropriate endorsements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Sounds like a great idea, how did you come up with that one!?

    Just one question for you, how will a bicyclist know they're going 10kph? Or any speed for that matter?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 31 The Mathematician


    Surely since cars have a much greater mass than bicycles. their speed limit should be much less than bicycles.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,824 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was responding to blade1. basically i was suggesting what they proposed was ludicrous enough to make me suspect it was a joke.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    30 kph speeds limits are not punishment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    30k speed limit

    OMG such a first world problem 🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Involved, or culpable?

    The culpable drivers did something to cause a collision. The remainder of the 3,257,621 did not. They have a right to ask that road safety measures be proportionate.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Christ, this crap gets boring quickly! What you are saying is that because most people driving haven't killed or seriously injured another person then they should not be punished by the same rules that should apply to those that have killed or seriously injured someone.

    Sure why bother having any laws in that case because it is oppressing those who have done nothing wrong? 🙄

    Clutching at straws there, Sean!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,785 ✭✭✭SeanW


    No, I'm calling for laws that are proportionate.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,675 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,932 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    73% of road fatalities are on rural roads,and I wouldn't be surprised if urban traffic was 80+% of all traffic. These measures are disproportionate relative to the source of the problem and will have a minimal effect on the road toll. How people can get all het up about the very small road toll in urban areas when there are 3,000 deaths PA from sepsis, hundreds of which are avaidable when you compare the stats to other countries, is beyond me. Ireland already has a very good road safety record and this perception that speed is the biggest problem is wrong; inattention is the number one killer. When an ambulance medic states that he has attended several incidents where the victim still has a phone clutched in their hand, it's likely not speed that killed.

    I'd rather we legislate that mobile masts be configured not to forward or accept signals from fast moving handsets, which they should be able to do as they can measure position via triangulation and even single masts likely could measure rapid movement due to changes in ping times. Handsets with location services turned on would be even easier. I'd hapilly make a five figure bet that such a measure would lead to a far larger reduction in the road toll than speed reductions or speeding fines.

    I'd rather the money saved from not pursuing reduced urban speed limits be put towards building an adequately sized and resourced replacement for UHL, where there have been patients on trolles for over 20 years. Ireland has the second lowest beds to population ratio in the EU.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,824 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    "I'd rather we legislate that mobile masts be configured not to forward or accept signals from fast moving handsets"

    main problem i would foresee is how you would account for car/bus/rail passengers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,479 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    How does a lower speed limit make an area less polluted?

    1. Emissions are higher at low speed (optimal speed is 50-90kph for lowest emissions)
    2. Lower speed will result in traffic moving slower through an area, hence more time to emit



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,932 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Do you understand what 'proportionate' means, because I suspect you don't.

    200 more claims - shocking!. Up 187 on 2022 - what is the world coming to?

    This means that there were 1740 uninsured claims in 2022, which proportionally is 1.3% of total claims. Given that uninsured vehicles make up 8.3% of the total, one might wonder why they are proportionately involved in only a sixth of the claims that an equal number of insured vehicles would have been.

    I'd say the amonunt of national angst and outrage over uninsured drivers is rather disproportionate, as are the resources devoted to enforcement.

    If the country didn't have such a fatuous legal system in the first place, the problem would be trivial, but Barristers having a slightly reduced opportunity to take their fee cut of multi-million payouts has to be one of the most serious issues facing Irish society. /s



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,932 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    That's easy - tough shi​t.

    For trains and buses use wifi, for passengers in cars, see above.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,932 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Spot on. My car has six gears, at 30 kph I'd likely be in 4th. But at least it's not a diesel, because 17 years ago I made a conscious decision not to polute and to instead cop the punishment of higher registration fees and excise in order to do the right thing, because unlike the clueless EPA or Greens, I knew what 3-nitrobenzanthrone is.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    73% of road fatalities are on rural roads,and I wouldn't be surprised if urban traffic was 80+% of all traffic. These measures are disproportionate relative to the source of the problem and will have a minimal effect on the road toll. 

    Road safety isn't just about the fatalities. It is also about the number of serious injuries. It is also about those that refuse to partake in active travel because of a risk to safety e.g. how many kids walk or cycle to school?

    As for phones, yes they are part of the problem. However, someone driving at 30km/h with their face in a phone will do much less damage than had they been driving at 50km/h.

    As for your proposal about masts, etc this is completely unworkable and would probably cost more than getting people to slow down a bit in urban centres.

    Lastly, if you think that any (unlikely) savings made by not reducing speed limits would pay for a replacement to UHL then you're delusional!

    https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=speed+limits+pollution

    Your proposal would also mean that many other options (that don't require the driver to become distracted) are unavailable whilst driving e.g. streaming music.
    I've also phoned gardai (using bluetooth) whilst driving to alert them to specific issues I've seen on the roads (drunk and dangerous driving for example).
    Lastly, you also have the emergency services who need to be able to communicate using phones but I guess "tough ****" to them too!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    This has been covered multiple times earlier in this thread. Using Galway as an example, the only roads that have been made 30km/h are relatively central streets with short distances between traffic lights. Main arteries with longer distances between traffic lights have been increased from 50 km/h to 60 km/h or even 80 km/h.

    So you aren't replacing a driving pattern of a steady 50 km/h with a steady 30 km/h. Instead you are replacing a pattern of accelerating up to 50 km/h and then braking back down to zero, with one of accelerating up to 30 km/h and then braking back down to zero. For that type of driving, emissions are lower if you are only accelerating up to 30 km/h.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,932 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Emergency services have radios. And you could easily have a register of IMEIs that wouldn't be blocked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    So going by that logic, if you're concerned about 30kph limits causing more pollution, then should the 120kph motorway limit be reduced to 90kph? In Germany they're trying to reduce the sections of unrestricted Autobahn's to cut Co2 emissions.

    The average speed of a motor vehicle in Dublin city centre is about 16kph, having a 30kph limit would mean that less hard accelerations to 50kph speeds are needed on city streets, which from the many old Diesel cars on the road usually means a lung full of black sooty smoke for the local residents walking down their street.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,824 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    as posted above; you are correct that 60-70km/h is often the sweet spot regarding fuel efficiency; but only if you can maintain that. you can't maintain 60km/h in urban areas.

    unless you've got regenerative brakes, braking is actually where you waste fuel. and you'd be braking more trying to maintain higher speeds through any area where you're going to be stopping and starting.

    i'm not counting idling and really low speeds, because they don't vary whether it's a 30km/h or 50km/h zone.



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