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Iran has come out of the shadows and attacked Israel directly. **Read OP before posting**

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No one has a time machine unfortunately.

    Iran has a doctrine of attacking Israel that doesn't have much to do with it's own defense or borders.

    The US didn't take part in Israel's recent attack. If Israel were to launch a mass attack on Iran tomorrow, and if they used some of their older Russian equipment it would be a bit of a stretch to imply "Russian involvement".

    There's plenty to be critical of the Israeli leadership, especially recently, but some project that blame beyond reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If Israel were to launch a mass attack on Iran tomorrow, and if they used some of their older Russian equipment it would be a bit of a stretch to imply "Russian involvement".

    Bad deflection. Israel is using newly and openly provided US equipment with their support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,257 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Everything Israel are using is US supplied. Its showing your bias if you can't agree that by proxy the US where as much involved in Israels attack on Iran as Iran are in hamas/hezbollah attacks on Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    ”in essence, Israel has become our 51st state”

    https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-01601R000300300016-2.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    » Everything Israel are using is US supplied.

    A majority but not all.

    The US admin could have been involved in the Israeli counter-attack, but they weren't. They specifically distanced themselves from it (for obvious reasons). Whereas they were involved in e.g. the Israeli defense prior to that. That was a conscious decision.

    Likewise just because Iran supports/arms proxies and allies in the region doesn't mean they are automatically involved in or directing every attack on Israel. In a rare moment, I saw them actually correcting disinformation that was spreading on social media about some over exaggerated or false "results" of their launches on Israel

    The key, and critical difference is that between the two nations most of Iran's actions are offensive, whereas Israel's are generally defensive. Outside of partisan views, internationally the optics for Iran are worse there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,257 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    If you supply the gun someone uses in a murder you'll be an accessory.

    It's semantics anyway. You seem to be agreeing in a round about way that Israel are to the US what hezbollah/hamas are to Iran.

    Which I agree with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The US has supplied Israel with tech to e.g. build nukes. That doesn't mean the Biden admin (or any admin) automatically approves of a nuclear strike by Israel on whoever.

    This is why the US made sure to distance itself from Israel's retaliatory strike on Iran. The current admin have more than signaled they are fine with the defense part, but not so much with Israel getting too offensive with Iran and escalating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,395 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,257 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    In Dublin they say, Jesus I'd murder a pint.

    In Tel Aviv they say, Jesus I'd murder you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,395 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Here's another one, told to me by a Jew, (before anyone tells me it's anti semitic):

    What's the proof that Jesus was a Jew?

    Ans: He was still living with his mother when he was 33, she thought he was the messiah, and he thought she was a virgin.

    Or, alternatively: He set up a multinational that's still making money 2000 years later.

    (I'll get my coat)

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,295 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Another good takeaway from this is his assessment of the intent of the Iranian strike. He makes a very compelling case that only part of the Iranian objective was achieved: The bit about expressing discontent without causing sufficient damage to force Israel to conduct a massive response. However, as he points out, you don't send a full salvo your best stuff in the expectation of it getting intercepted when you have older systems on hand which can do the same job. There was almost certainly a defeated attempt to cause more damage to Israeli targets than actually was caused.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,095 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    If they were intent on causing major damage why signpost the attacks in advance. I think the Iranians knew the bulk of their missiles would be intercepted and were probably happy to avoid an escalation. They may have decided to use newer weapons to project force and make it look like they were intent on causing major damage. I am just wondering how long before Israel go back to killing Iranians in Syria. Also for all we know an understanding may have been worked between all parties in private to avoid a wider regional war. As a former head of Mossad said what we see in public is not always reflective of what's happening in private.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    We could do with armaments and a few ships and planes 😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    With the dome Iran might aswell have thrown eggs at Israel. It seems pointless in hindsight. It only showed their weakness in comparison to Israel/USA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Iran sent a small number of newer missiles aimed at two airbases which house Israel's F35's. Those 2 airbases are probably two of the most well defended areas on the planet, all of them hit the bases and none were shot down despite the fact that Israel were given 3 days notice that a strike will happen.

    Do you understand what that means ?

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Yes I understand perfectly. There were bo casualties from multiple Iranian strikes. Israel tried to draw Iran into the conflict with the Iranian consulate attack, which had fatalities.

    I hope you understand what that means.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,295 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    It also gave Israel live experience at dealing with the absolute latest equipment Iran can offer as well as costing more in terms of per unit cost than necessary. Some of the cruise missiles were revealed only a year ago. It cost more to make the point that it needed to in order to make that point.

    But, yes, if it’s makes it look like they were intent on causing damage (I’m not going to say “major”, but enough to notice) then it also makes it look like a failed attempt. The damage was negligible. In terms of sending a message, the Israeli response was far more efficient and arguably successful



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,095 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    It was done for a domestic audience and they probably bought the spin, but I agree anyone looking from the outside should know Israel was the clear winner in this confrontation. The Iranian Government will know it too. This is why they played down the attack despite the radar for the Russian defense system at the base being damaged in the attack. It was a warning from Israel of what they are capable of doing to Irans most prized assets



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭brickster69


    A clear warning should Israel attack Iran again.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Ah missed this.

    The inference was that the US supports everything it's US supplied allies do militarily. Supply doesn't always mean automatic involvement or support (as mentioned US supplied nuclear weapons tech doesn't mean Israel can nuke whomever and the US supports it, likewise all military activities with allies). The US very openly said "yeah nope" to that Israeli strike on Iran, pretty obvious as they aren't keen on escalation. Now if it was a Trump admin, then maybe it could have been very different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭engineerws


    I wonder is it because I was friends with an Iranian whose wife and himself were both elegant and sophisticated hosts that I cannot understand how anyone could support the child murderers of Israel over Iran.

    I knew Israeli's too and three were nice but none of those had served on the frontline when I knew them. I think the apartheid requirement they instituted has driven them barmy.

    I've no major problem with Iran, womens rights probably need to be improved but supporting the child murdering genocidal state of Israel over Iran.... that seems crazy and yet we have people here supporting Israel. Why?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭engineerws


    Fair point, seems like a shockingly cruel and arbitrary judgement, but still hardly a reason to hate them given Saudi does similar but is a great ally of the USA and certainly not a reason to prefer the child murderers in Israel.

    How anyone could prefer the Israeli child murderers is beyond me. Maybe they are people working in Israel companies or otherwise compromised. It makes no sense to me and even more crazy to see the UK/ EU backing Israel. It feels like the colonists and imperialists have to support horror to somehow assert what they see as their superiority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,110 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    No definitely shouldn't hate them for that, definitely no colonialism or imperialism in their history either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,900 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Iran condemns US attempts to trample on free speech and right to protest.

    “Wars begin when you want them to, but they don’t end when you ask them to.”- Niccolò Machiavelli



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,181 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Same country which is executing it's youth that protested for change.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,222 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed if this was Iran students would be taken to Evin prison and tortured (and some later hung) and those women would be attacked for not wearing headscarfs by the morality police.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 37,293 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Sounds like you know literally nothing about Iran. Have a read of this:

    https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/iran

    Executions

    Iran remains one of the world’s top practitioners of the death penalty, applying it to individuals convicted of crimes committed as children and under vague national security charges; occasionally, it is also used for non-violent offenses. Iranian law deems actions like “insulting the prophet,” “apostasy,” same-sex relations, adultery, alcohol consumption, and certain non-violent drug-related offenses to be punishable by death.

    Based on a report from the Iran Human Rights Organization, more than 700 executions took place in Iran during the period between January and November 2023. This marks a substantial increase compared to the same period in 2022. Among those executed, 238 were charged with “intentional murder,” and 390 with “drug-related offenses.”  Furthermore, 10 individuals received death sentences for political or security-related charges or blasphemy, and 1 person was sentenced to death on espionage charges.

    Judicial authorities drastically increased the use of vaguely defined national security charges that could carry the death penalty against protestors, including for allegedly injuring others and destroying public property. Following grossly unfair trials where many of defendants did not have access to the lawyer of their choice, authorities issued 25 death sentences in connection to the protests. As of September 20, authorities executed 7 people, and 11 cases were overturned by the supreme court.



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