Russia - threadbanned users in OP

It should be obvious to you by now that there is no mood among large swathes of the American or European electorate for war, especially for loser wars. The widespread protests by potential Democrat voters has materially changed the American administrations attitude towards the Israeli's military campaign in Gaza and forced Netenyahu into retreat. Traditionally conservative voters have never been that interested in foreign intervention, the major wars involving American soldiers have been led by progressives (starting with Wilson in WWI, WWII & Vietnam). Gulf War II and the current disaster that is American foreign policy (bringing freedom and democracy to the world) has been a consequence of the neocons longstanding ambitions. The American administration has recently turned on them and the neocon Victoria Nuland has been given the road, though Anthony Blinken is still there. There are no votes to be had by any political party sending American troops to confront Russia and having to tell the American public that your administration squandered billions in American wealth with no upside, that ain't going to fly. The pointing at Trump and the GOP is just a diversion by the current American and European administrations setting up their alibis for their failure by scapegoating another party.

People calling for more intervention and more attacks are calling for the acceleration of the current WWIII. Be careful what you are asking for, it might be you or your relatives on the eastern front. This wars can end this year, if they do then so much the better. Politics being what it is, the GOP can claim they stopped the Democrats wasting American taxpayers money. Democrat administration not willing to be associated with the loss have every incentive to keep the wars going this side of the election, the next administration can be blamed.

If the war does not end this year, it will culminate in much greater loss of men and material by 2027 when all sides (that includes us here in Ireland) have exhausted their resources and agree to compromise. The final phase of the previous world wars (I & II) direct fighting only lasted about 4 to 5 years.

Russia did not simply come in and assert a grip on anything. What they did was they identified certain fractures in the social fabric of western countries, certain points of discontent and then spread disinformation which has amplified them via malcontents and mouthpieces who are mostly protected by the tenet of freedom of speech. The result of this would be (Russia and China hope) that western democracies are too busy in-fighting to provide effective and sustained opposition to whatever moves they make.

Liberal democracy requires work to maintain and consistent principles to maintain its integrity. One is that there must be a sense of civic responsibility that prioritises the common good over individual gain and individual expression and that's something we've badly lost sight of. It's why social media companies have for so long gladly helped spread disinformation because of the potential profit and don't care if the world burns because of it.

@Pa ElGrande

It should be obvious to you by now that there is no mood among large swathes of the American or European electorate for war, especially for loser wars.

This is a truism. It's always been the case that a country will want prosperity and peace over bloody war and will only change stance when they believe the risk-reward ratio to be high enough. The trouble with this is that a steadfast policy of peace leads to appeasement of aggressors and only a postponement of direct confrontation.

So if, for the sake of argument, we see Russia eventually conquer Ukraine and begin to agitate the Baltics with Chinese backing in 5 or 10 years time, will that be the red line, or will people in the West say, "You know, that's really more of a Baltic problem…", and you could go down the line with that until the forces are on your own border all because each individual country wanted just a few days more peace…

People don't need to call for direct intervention, but the policy of giving Ukraine the aid it needs to defend its territory makes perfect sense to put Russia back in its box and China along with them.

Things must be looking up a little bit for Russia in their war if you are posting again after quiet period!

You are using some very strange and awkward terms like the "European Administrations" and the "European Electorate", but that is a lecture about state of US internal politics, how politicians and the electorate are tired of wars around the world now (bless!).

You try to shoe-horn Europe into it somehow but it does not fit well. Do you live here I wonder? Ukraine is in Europe and results for Europe (EU and also Ireland) of any Russian success/Ukrainian loss are different (and alot more ugly) vs those for the US.

Anyway unfortunately for us, little evidence Putin and the Russian leadership is tiring of wars yet.

Refusing to aid Ukraine any further supposedly to save US$ and urging them to just get it all over with and surrender seems unlikely to me to reduce Russia's appetite for starting wars and usher in peace in Europe. It only takes one to wage a war, if you just refuse to fight at all, you can still be a victim.

Whatever about the US, there is really no way out for Europe of spending far more money on war (militaries and weapons) now and suffering the pain from that, whether that it is continuing to aid Ukraine as much as possible in present and/or rearming back to end of Cold War levels.

German news station NTV Nachrichten talks about a 3rd Patriot system, taken from Luftwaffe stocks and available almost immediately. To me, this reads as a full battery, i.e. radar, command post, generator and multiple launchers. Previous Patriot batteries handed over to Ukraine contained 6 launchers, each with four launch cells, so I’d suspect this is a similar case.

https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Deutschland-liefert-weiteres-Patriot-System-an-Kiew-article24871109.html

From what I’ve been able to glean, the term “Fire Unit” (Feuereinheit in German) that was used in the press release is Bundeswehr parlance for the smallest tactical unit of any particular system that is required for said system to operate effectively. Boris Pistorius, Germany’s minister of defence, has served in the Bundeswehr, in a Gepard AAA unit no less, so it would make sense for him to fall back on terms that he’s used to.

To add on to that Comrade Trump is proposing major tariffs which would likely send the US spiraling into recession. 60% on anything from China, 100% on foreign cars and 10% on all other imports as an example. If this wannabe dictator takes power again in the US the implications not just for Americans but for pretty much everyone who believes in and wants to live in free, open and democratic societies are very bad and potentially catastrophic.

Twitter has become really awful last few weeks. Pro Russian accounts seem to be convinced of imminent UAF surrender and collapse. US needs to get the finger out of the Western World turns there backs on them.

russia are the best in the world at asymmetric warfafe, unfortunately.

It's the dramatic thing to say and it is a great distraction from why Europ. Especially Western Europe is near unable to defend itself and largely unwilling to change that.

It is also a distraction from the fact that Ukraine is deliberately short changed by the entire West so as to help bring the war to a conclusion/stalemate.

It's a horrendous mistake by Biden and most of Europe, sometimes de-escalation and an end to a conflict are the wrong thing to do.

long copy, but in informative

Celeste Wallander is the Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs, and while briefing Congress this week, said that the US does not support Ukraine attacking Russian oil facilities because they are civilian targets. From 2017–2022, she was the CEO of the US-Russia Foundation, a non-profit with offices in Washington and Moscow that works closely with the private sector in Russia and has encouraged Western investment in the terrorist state. She is corrupted by Russian influence, and the idea that she could be placed in such a high position in the administration is cause for worry.

Jake Sullivan, whose resignation (firing) I have called for before, is corrupted by his close relationship with Samuel Charap, a member of the Valdai Club, the Moscow-funded “think tank” that advances Russian interests among intellectuals and scholars abroad through bribery (err… funding). Putin, Lavrov, and other Russian terrorist leaders regularly attend Valdai conferences. Charap was a Fulbright scholar at the Moscow State Institute for International Relations, a school with close ties to Russian intelligence, where students are recruited into the FSB (if they are Russian) or as pro-Russian influencers (if they are foreign). Charap continues to regularly visit the White House, even after publishing such articles as “The US should surrender to Russia now” and “Russia is too powerful to oppose.” I’m just kidding. He’s not so obvious. He did pen an article in Foreign Policy titled “The West’s Weapons Won’t Make Any Difference to Ukraine.”

I am not saying it's right that we in the west and the US just ignore what Russia and Putin are doing in Ukraine. I have posted many times on this thread in support of sending as much military assistance as possible, I have actually been critical that enough has not been done in this regard.

But I think talk of escalation into NATO countries or suggestion of WW3 is far fetched. I just don't see it happening.

However I agree with your assessment on Georgia and Kazakhstan being at risk in the future.

With what is happening with Iran and Israel at the moment I wonder what will happen regarding Ukraine in the sense of will the attention of the world be cast more to the middle east will the US give more arms to Israel that might have eventually been given to Ukraine, will Iran hold off giving Russia any more arnaments/drones now since they might need them all themselves.

I doubt Europe will be supplying Israel and the US hasn't really supplied Ukraine with much in the past 4/5 months.

It's not like Israel will be lobbing artillery shells at Iran. The only thing both Ukraine and Israel would need in common would be anti air. But the US/UK and no apparently Jordan shoot down missiles and drones heading to Israel, but Cruise missiles flying into Poland are left untouched. Crazy ****!

Iran escalating with Israel is good and bad. More aid will go to Israel but Iran will sell less to Russia and Israel will probably respond by targeting drone facilities in Iran.