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N17 - Knock to Collooney [design & planning underway]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,865 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Absolute nonsense. Only a small portion of our currently SC National road network justifies DC, mostly National Primaries but even a small enough proportion of that. Pissing away money building DC where it is not required now or in the foreseeable future would be an enormous waste of resources and would only result in inadequate roads remaining so for longer.

    It is not for the people of today to build infrastructure for some far off future which we don't know what it will look like or how it will operate. Look at how quickly the motor car replaced trains or even how many roads (particularly motorways) which were built in the 70s and 80s were considered totally inadequate less than 20 years later and had to be substantially reengineered to bring to what became the new modern standard. That modern standard will be surpassed eventually too. he last 100 years has seen the greatest rate of technological change, even if that pace sows dramatically, things will still be very different in 100 years and in ways we can't imagine.

    And populations are not always going to increase. Just because we have had a sustained period of population growth doesn't mean mean it will always be so. Populations fluctuate, often due to factors outside of our control, AI and climate change are certainly to have some effect (although what that will be is certainly up for debate). It simply isn't possible for the population to increase indefinitely, that should be obvious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭serfboard


    While I'd agree (and frequently say on here) about building it right first time, I'd amend your statement to say all National Primary Road Replacement should be a minimum of DC standard.

    There's no need to upgrade, for instance, the N56, N59, N67 and N70 (Rings of Donegal, Mayo/Galway, Clare and Kerry) for example to DC. Take out the bad bends for sure (like is being done on the N86, another National Secondary Road).



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Mrs Dempsey


    And populations are not always going to increase. Just because we have had a sustained period of population growth doesn't mean mean it will always be so.

    Likely true in a global context - but climate & economic (not unrelated) gradients would indicate that "our" more temperate corner of Europe will continue to be a magnet for many. Lest I am putting wind in anti immigrant sails, I'm not an "Ireland for the Irish" acolyte.



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I'd agree with that. If all the primary routes indicated in green on the map were upgraded to DC we would have quite a strong network between a lot of the main towns. Unfortunately considerable stretches of these routes are not yet up up to single lane standard and I think this is affecting decision making - i.e. get everything up to proper SC standard first while making provision for future DC upgrades.

    Based on the map it looks like a few extra primary routes running N-S in the midlands would be beneficial linking motorways and primary routes running E-W. Otherwise it looks very much like 'all roads lead to Dublin'.




  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Yes all the indicators are that the population will continue to increase - some projections have it up to 10million on the island by the end of the century. It would be negligent not to plan ahead.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    That councillor will have little or no influence on what happens either way but he is right that it should have greater priority.

    When the Limerick-Cork motorway opens a person driving from Cork to Sligo will have a modern motorway all the way to Tuam, then a big step down to a SC to Charlestown and then a further reduction in road standard at the Sligo end that will remain dangerous for at least another 10 years it appears. A combination of Eamon Ryan's priorities and Sligo's lack of influence at cabinet level is plain to see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    There seems to be a survey on the n17 between Tubbercurry and Ballinacarrow



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview




  • Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭lotusm


    There must be a general election.coming...



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    As per TII, design work to commence on the Charlestown and Tobercurry bypass sections. From the route selection, that seems to be 8km for the Charlestown and 11km for the Tobercurry section.

    Would be great to get these moving.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    That section will be bypassed by the new routes, it is to remain in place after the new routes are complete.

    What's unclear is where the new N17 Charlestown/Curry bypass will tie in at the southern end. That phase of the plan ends at the N5 with the section south of there to the R376 marked as a separate N17 N5 to Ireland West Airport Knock section.

    Reminder: https://n17knockcollooney.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/N17-Brochure-Website-Version.pdf



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,649 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    R.I.P.


    I think it's time to flood local TDs, Councillors and Senators with letters/emails pushing for speeding up the project. It's long overdue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    3 more lives claimed today near Claremorris. Possibly driver error the cause but surely major stretches of this road will have to be addressed soon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,407 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Looks like this happened on a relatively new stretch of the road too? The Claremorris bypass part



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,407 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Think I’m right in saying this accident is close to the upgraded new junction they built which had been an accident black spot on this road?



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    No further north I think but yes still on the bypass part. Based on the accident photograph on Galway Beo I think it occured near here. 2 side roads at that location which may have had something to do with it.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7289596,-8.9798625,3a,75y,208.68h,91.09t/data=!3m9!1e1!3m7!1s6IsLBi4EqDOTQ5Y5Qbk_JA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!9m2!1b1!2i40?entry=ttu



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,407 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Probably to do with the junction alright. Usually is on these road types



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Yes the same issues as over near the N5 at Swinford. Bridges and rerouted side roads the only solution I think but with so many side roads all along these routes you're talking major works.



  • Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭Mullinabreena


    A truck went off the N17 at Claragh Irish just north of Achonry. It happens regularly there. N17 closed tonight between 11pm and 7am with detours in place while cranes remove the truck.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,649 ✭✭✭✭joujoujou
    Unregistered Users


    Truck hit the ditch Monday night, removed last night. Quite large bit of N17 was closed, all traffic between Tubbercurry and Annaghmore went via Ballymote (R293/R294/R296).



  • Registered Users Posts: 807 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Will never happen but would be great. A 2+2 would be fine in fairness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    You beat me to it. I was just about to post that.

    No can't see it either. I think Type 2 is suitable for up to 20k AADT so that would be enough to future proof it.

    It's difficult to see how the government can persist with just SC improvements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    SC would be fine for the traffic volumes, if it was a modern standard with safe junctions, but having all manner of vehicles entering at T junctions and turning across both lanes while traffic is barrelling down at them is just madness in this day and age.

    Although that said, the real problem stretches are South Sligo which don't even have hard shoulders or any clear sightlines, it's all narrow bends



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    South Sligo looks to be worst area in terms of existing road layout but it seems it's no better than around the relatively new bypass stretch around Claremorris where accidents are becoming more frequent. I don't think picking parts of it to do is sensible anymore. The whole route needs major improvements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    South Sligo roads are that bad they demand attention. The relatively straight and wide sections around Claremorris encourage speeding and are mortgage forgiving to those many people who scroll phones will driving. That and the many junctions remaining on the road, it's no surprise really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I think by the time all the bad junctions are addressed with all the costs that would involve it would be as well to make it all Type 2 DC. Scrolling phone drivers is a problem that needs addressing but I think it's a separate issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    There should be a motorway or DC from Cork to Derry. The Atlantic corridor. I don’t live too far from Ballindine and the increase in traffic on the N17 the past few years is very noticeable. I drive this road most days and from what I see dangerous overtaking is the most common form of dangerous driving I see. I suspect as already mentioned that phone use is also a major issue.

    The majority of police resources seem to be focused on drunk drivers…so many people actually drink drive anymore? What percentage of road deaths are caused by drunk drivers? I’m not saying it should be tolerated but maybe more resources can be focused elsewhere.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Our road ambitions have a very 90s feel about them at the minute. Short bypasses, upgraded single carriageway, piecemeal upgrades etc.

    The worst thing about all that is that Mayo in recent years has been a textbook example as to why not to do this. The amount of people killed on upgraded sections of the N5 and N17 in the last 6/7 years is really depressing. What’s worse is planning another 40km upgrade of the N17 in the same manner for demented ideological reasons. We’re trying to correct the mistakes made on the N5 and N17 with all these GSJs and at the same time planning 40km of the same fatally flawed road standard.



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