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The crusade against the motorist continues...

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    #302
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005206#Comment_122005206

    People are entitled to feel safe on public transport and entitled to be safe in their city centre.

    Thats the priority and not whether plazas are created, the general public want Gardai on every street and when we have that we can talk about pedestrian zones.

    Those stupid montages they draw up, full of happy cool young people, cycling around merrily in the sun, no old people, very few disabled, no violent young men on scooters, no gangs of beggars, no drunks acting aggressively, no junkies sprawled on the pavements.

    The only realistic aspect of the montages is there is never a Garda present.



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    #303
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Nobody here is denying the right to feel safe but it has nothing to do with the bus gates on the quays. Start a different thread maybe?



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    #304
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005317#Comment_122005317

    Its all linked, removing cars from the quays makes that area less safe at night.

    I took a bus to the Central Criminal Court and what I witnessed on the Quays at 830 AM in the morning,😳 I thought the dregs would be asleep then but they were fighting among themselves,was very glad I wasnt walking or on a bike.



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    #305
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005359#Comment_122005359

    It's a single Bus-Gate we're talking about not a Zombie apocalypse!



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    #306
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005359#Comment_122005359

    Its all linked, removing cars from the quays makes that area less safe at night.

    What evidence is that based on or is this simply your opinion?



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    #307
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005385#Comment_122005385

    Its the thinking behind all of it, removing cars piece by piece and then we have these empty streets at night that people will avoid.

    The authorities need to do whatever it takes to increase Garda numbers, thats the priority for me, sick of worrying about my children, my nephews and nieces, sickened about the attacks on their friends, thats the first duty of a government.

    After that is achieved then we can concentrate on bus gates etc.

    Is a lot of the traffic moved from the quays going to go via Church Street, has anyone addressed where it diverts to.

    I know I wont be able to turn left onto Pearse St, a turn I have made for thirty years, am I going to be joining hundreds of other diverted motorists, where will we cross the river.



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    #308
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005467#Comment_122005467

    Firstly with Grafton St. pedestrianised, is it an "empty street at night that people will avoid"?

    As for your idea to increase garda numbers before the council should build the bus gates, what is your suggestion if garda numbers are ever reduced?

    To be honest, you previously claimed that you had "no skin in the game" but that is gradually becoming less and less believable!



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    #309
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005467#Comment_122005467

    The same exact issues you're on about happen each time there's a change in the city centre area for the past 40 or 50 years…

    Here's some examples and there's also interviews with motorists online at the time of these changes predicting the same apocalyptic scenes you're talking about in your posts…

    Pedestrianisation of Grafton Street: 1982

    Pedestrianisation of Henry Street: 1971

    Removal of left Turn from end of Dawson Street: 2001

    Eamonn Ryan Suggesting congestion zones with electronic tagging: 2001

    Dublin's first Bus Lane: 1980



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    #310
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,668 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005417#Comment_122005417

    I can't speak for proof but in my own experience we live on a busy road and the main houses that get burgled are off the main road in side avenues. The ones facing the road rarely get burgled and we think it's down to the extra eyes on the houses

    Anecdotal I'll admit but it has been our experience



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    #311
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005521#Comment_122005521

    But the majority of houses are not on a busy road, mostly because people don't want to live on a busy road.

    People driving on a road are not going to stop someone breaking into a house. Especially at night because they will be driving and not looking into peoples houses/garden to check



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    #312
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005521#Comment_122005521

    ...and you're living on Dublin's Quays?

    The two short sections of the quays will remain the same number of pedestrians (if not more) once cars are gone and its completely daft to try and compare them to your housing estate!



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    #313
    beachhead
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭beachhead


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121996551#Comment_121996551

    Anyone who owns a car is weatlhy? Tell that to the mass of people around the country not just in Dublin city.Dublin is a horse and cart city mostly since it's foundation.It must be real fun for bus drivers moving thru the chicanes,roadworks etc Getting rid of cars definitely makes it easier for the hawkers and muggers catch up with you



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    #314
    beachhead
    Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭beachhead


    Clo-Clo

    too much water in Amsterdam to have cars as well



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    #315
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,929 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    this traffic being a solution to crime thing has to be one of the most ridiculous tropes out there



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    #316
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005623#Comment_122005623

    I was responding to someone suggesting a congestion charge; which is irrelevant to the wealthy.

    The majority of people living in Dublin City Centre do not own a car, by the way. In the areas where the restrictions are coming in, the peak household ownership rate is 30% and the peak that use them to commute is 15%. So the majority do not own one and the vast majority do not use one for work.

    Those are 2016 census figures, it has almost certainly dropped further since based on passenger numbers, active travel use etc.

    Cars are not suitable for a horse and cart city either; but that's irrelevant as the main streets were widened multiple times - Wide Streets Commission and by the Corporation from the 30s to 00s; so this at best doesn't help your argument or actually harms if you insist it is a "horse and cart city".

    I'm not sure what on earth your last line means.



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    #317
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005521#Comment_122005521

    Pedestrian eyes are just as if not more valuable than car drivers eyes in providing passive surveillance - they're there for a lot longer!



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    #318
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005501#Comment_122005501

    Grafton Street will always attract footfall as its a destination and most of the shops have security on the doors and plenty of undercover private security staff.

    comparing this to pedestrianising the area around the custom house or Lincoln place is nonsense, who is going to hang around these" plazas " in the evening.

    It never stops raining in this country, cold and dark from sept to May, serious alcohol abuse problem, growing drug menace leading go rise in vicious assaults, those responsible for much of the intimidation are underage so know they are untouchable.

    Just saw a headline in a paper, 440,000 extra cars and 400 less Gardai.

    So again sort out the public safety issue first so people will actually come into the city, take the streets back from the criminal element and only then put street furniture etc where cars, buses and taxis usrd to be.



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    #319
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005776#Comment_122005776

    You're missing the basic fact that passing vehicular traffic does not make anywhere safer to begin with. Removing it has no impact.



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    #320
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,929 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005785#Comment_122005785

    you're wasting your time with that one, some of the stuff they were coming out with on the dun laoighaire thread is nuts, it's like some kind of AI that learned all the cliched tropes about bikes and car restrictions from twitter and journal comments



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    #321
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005785#Comment_122005785

    It absolutely does make areas safer, people coming and going from their cars, lights on the cars, passing motorists who might stop and help if someone is being attacked, how can you say a deserted dark street with no one is safer than one with cars.

    I walk at night and avoid dark isolated areas, dont go into parks, I choose noisy streets with passing cars, I am assuming you are male and I have had enough of being spoken down to by men, you have simply no comprehension of the way women use public spaces.



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    #322
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005776#Comment_122005776

    I think you're being a bit over the top in relation to trouble in town. Granted there are areas that are dodgier than others but you're making it out to be a hell hole.

    It's not about hanging around the proposed plazas at night, it's about making the city a more welcoming place for footfall and generally a nicer place to be. Capel St is 10 times nicer since it's pedestrianisation than it ever was. Ditto with Parliament street during the trial periods of pedestrianisation.

    It's mid April now and guarantee there'll be plenty having coffees or standing outside pubs enjoying pints after work today not in the rain, cold and dark environment that you're describing.

    Closing a few sections of the quays that already has very little private traffic is not going to turn the Dublin into Gotham City.



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    #323
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005805#Comment_122005805

    Your belief is not backed up by facts.

    Motorists are far less likely to stop and help than a passer by on foot or bike is. The areas you are talking about are streetlit and do not require the brief lights of passing cars.

    You are not talking about dark isolated areas here; and gender is irrelevant - you are making baseless claims based off anecdote and a complete misrepresentation of the areas involved.



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    #324
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    We need "Bruce Wayne/Batman" to patrol the streets if the Car security Patrol isn't allowed to drive around the city centre now!



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    #325
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005059#Comment_122005059

     if cars are removed then less people around at night

    This is simply untrue.



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    #326
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005826#Comment_122005826

    Its not safe, the business owners are finding it very tough.

    I personally know of at least five young men who have been attacked for no reason, daughters little pal is tiny, flung to the ground in Temple bar at 4pm, not a Garda in sight.

    And then we are supposed to believe hanging around Beresford place after dark or at anytime of the day will be pleasant.

    By this time next year all those areas identified as future plazas will be full of men in tents.

    I mean get the tents off Mount Street before you do anything with Lincoln place, its just ridiculous.



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    #327
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,116 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005849#Comment_122005849

    Is hanging around Beresford Place currently all sweetness and light because of the passing traffic, then?

    Your entire argument is based on nonsense. Cars passing do not make places safer; and anyway, even if you were somehow right (you're not), there's very few of them passing through the future restrictions even now.



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    #328
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005776#Comment_122005776

    Grafton Street will always attract footfall as its a destination and most of the shops have security on the doors and plenty of undercover private security staff.

    Grafton street didn't used to be a "destination" - it used to be a regular street that one would drive through!

    comparing this to pedestrianising the area around the custom house or Lincoln place is nonsense, who is going to hang around these" plazas " in the evening.

    I didn't make that comparison so why mention it?

    It never stops raining in this country, cold and dark from sept to May,

    You obviously don't be outside much if you think the weather is that bad!

    serious alcohol abuse problem, growing drug menace leading go rise in vicious assaults, those responsible for much of the intimidation are underage so know they are untouchable.

    Nothing to do wiht a feckin bus gate FFS

    Just saw a headline in a paper, 440,000 extra cars and 400 less Gardai.

    So way more cars now and you think they should be free to drive into our cities whenever they wish because of safety and other nonsense claims?

    So again sort out the public safety issue first so people will actually come into the city, take the streets back from the criminal element and only then put street furniture etc where cars, buses and taxis usrd to be.

    Blah blah blah "No skin in the game" you said?
    People sitting in cars doesn't make the city centre safer. In fact, if there was something to happen, do you think all the drivers would hop out and help? Would they f**k!



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    #329
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005805#Comment_122005805

    So you think the two short sections of the quays that will be restricted will suddenly go from being busy to be deserted and dark?
    Where are you getting this nonsense from?
    There will still be loads of people there so not sure why you are wasting people's time talking about dark isolated areas and parks at night FFS.

    Oh and stop trying to use mysoginy as as excuse to defend your crap arguments!



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    #330
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005849#Comment_122005849

    Twice now you've referred to Lincoln Place. Why? Do you really not understand the change DCC are about to implement (despite your abundance of commentary on it)?
    It is not part of the two Liffey Quay Bus Gates unless someone moved the street this morning



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    #331
    maisie45
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122005872#Comment_122005872

    Yes, I do feel I should be able to drive through the city like I always have, I have no interest in hanging around Capel Street eating or drinking so pedestrianising that is no benefit to me.

    I presume the traffic that used Capel Street is now causing issues elsewhere just the same as me turning right onto Pearse Street instead of left is moving me in one direction instead of another.

    How is the Guinness traffic going to divert, is it via Church Street, thats insane.😡



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