The crusade against the motorist continues...

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998673#Comment_121998673

Blame the Greens all you wish but remember that Dublin City Council isn't dominated by the Green Party Councillors!

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999151#Comment_121999151

from 2014-2019 it was run by Sinn Fein which was a disaster for Dublin when social housing stock reduced, not increased 🤦‍♂️

Nigzcurran

Can someone explain why a taxi carrying maybe only one passenger is entitled to use a bus lane? How does that make sense?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999102#Comment_121999102

'we don't all need to own cars' =/= 'people shouldn't own their own cars'

c'mon, this is basic stuff. second class comprehension level stuff.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998839#Comment_121998839

You should ask yourself (or maybe your neighbour given you need to get your info from them) why the government felt that it wasn't a good idea to make them mandatory. Maybe ask your garda neighbour why they don't police illegal parking in cycle lanes for starters.

Nonetheless, what I find when I cycle along the quays is that I'm usually the fastest moving person there at the time (mainly because the quays are slow moving)! Not sure how that all matches your logic but what I find is that I am often delayed by people in cars slowing me down.

However, why can the bus behind a slower moving cyclist not just overtake them in the regular traffic lane beside the bus lane?

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999100#Comment_121999100

Amsterdam invested in trams and an underground, they have few enough buses. Dublin is planning restrictions ok, but feck all investment.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999308#Comment_121999308

Paris has completely transformed their streets over the last 5 years. They had an extensive underground already but people were still driving. They just reallocated road space and that is what finally did the job. Now the modal share of walking and biking is far higher.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999338#Comment_121999338

Fine, by all means introduce Paris style measures when you have 300 metro stations.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999343#Comment_121999343

People didn't transit to the metro, the metro was there and they were still driving. When the made the streets accessible to cyclists and pedestrians that is when things changed.

They also had the exact same nonsense arguments against it. There was also a large push about a backlash against the mayor who pushed it through, yet she got re-elected and there is no way they are going back now. People campaigned against removing cars from the Seine riverbank for god's sake.

n.d.os

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999338#Comment_121999338

An efficient underground system, coupled with incoming rail connections, makes personal vehicles unnecessary in the city. While Paris’s train system may not rival Geneva’s premier network, it far surpasses Ireland’s current infrastructure. As a resident of Wexford, the prospect of a direct train to Dublin is appealing, rather than a shared line with the Dart that’s slower than driving. Ideally, the city center’s underground should extend past Sandyford, but planners failed to heed the concerns of disconnected Ranelagh residents who opposed closing Dunville Avenue to expand the metro service. In Ireland, we tend to approach change with excessive caution, rarely disrupting the status quo for future benefits. The Luas serves a fraction of South Dublin’s population, offering little advantage to long-distance commuters like myself who must leave their cars at Dublin’s edge and crawl into the city on the Luas. The city’s new bike lanes, while commendable, encroach on driving space, leading to damaged bollards due to narrow car lanes. What’s needed is a comprehensive, long-term strategy, not piecemeal solutions. The current Metro Northside and Luas Southside setup typifies Irish planning outcomes. Until public transport becomes efficient and seamless, I’ll rely on an electric vehicle for my Wexford to Dublin city visits. If there's a congestion charge prior to proper services, I just won't go into the city. In other European capitals, such transportation woes are non-existent.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999843#Comment_121999843

An efficient underground system, coupled with incoming rail connections, makes personal vehicles unnecessary in the city.

Ignoring the fact that it is only two sections of the quays in Dublin being restricted to private cars, you think that despite traffic congestion in our cities being bad and getting worse, we should wait maybe forty or fifty years before we remove private cars from congested areas?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999843#Comment_121999843

An efficient underground system, coupled with incoming rail connections, makes personal vehicles unnecessary in the city

And yet the streets were clogged with cars until they re-allocated road space away from them.

blackbox

I don't blame the Greens, I blame mismanagement and failure of law enforcement.

How many traffic lights are sub optimal for traffic flow, including for buses? Are locations and numbers of bus stops optimal?

Why are motorists able to get away with driving or stopping in bus lanes? Why are people able to get away with running red lights? - amber lights seem to be mostly ignored. This can be addressed by cameras.

Why is parking by vans and cars on footpaths or cycle lanes tolerated?

There's no point putting in more bus lanes if the above is to continue.

spaceHopper

@Clo-Clo

The system is modernized, the biggest issue at the moment is the extensive bus system in Dublin is slowed down by cars.

Bus lanes are used by people who think it is their own private lane when traffic gets bad and at every traffic light its a nightmare as people jump in and out of bus lanes slowing them down

Not from what I can see driving down the N11, simple solution NPR and Gardai

How is closing down street in Dublin "financially squeezing people"?

How is making it quicker and easier to use public transport to get to work? how much would a person save per year v a car if they use public transport.

The public transport isn't ready for this, they don't have the drivers or 100's of new busses to add to the streets. We already have a problem with public transport.

What is the problem they are trying to fix? Is it air quality? Then fix the traffic light sequencing so that traffic including busses aren't stuck in traffic. Flood the streets with busses so that there is a viable choice then and only then introduce restrictions on cars. All they are going to do is get the greens unelected other politicians will see this and drop all green changes

All this is going to do is to push people onto other routes, a lot of the roads around the city are in poor condition that's going to make them fall apart much quicker.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999308#Comment_121999308

The Netherlands also went through an issue of car dominance on the roads, they paved over canal's to build extra motorways… We're still going through a 1960's style car dominance more in line with America where people want to drive everywhere, go to out of town retail parks, drive-thru restaurants, underfunded public transport, no congestion charges, no speed camera network, no bus lane cameras, can't submit video to Gardai as evidence of bad driving.. etc…. Car is King in Ireland.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998839#Comment_121998839

That's actually a good point. It's mainly because most Irish drivers don't have the foresight to leave some room so the buses can overtake cyclists, they'll stick side by side with the bus in a immovable line. I guess if cars are removed buses will increase & have more room to overtake and manoeuvre.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000085#Comment_122000085

Flood the streets with busses so that there is a viable choice then and only then introduce restrictions on cars.

You simply can not do this in this order. You need to create the space for the buses first.

These transport plans predate the Greens and will outlast them.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000085#Comment_122000085

The traffic lights work, the issue is bus are delayed with cars in the bus lanes.

The new bus corridors will bring in AI for bus lane enforcement but also traffic light sequence, so if a bus is coming the lights will change to get it in faster, that's the plan anyway

Yes of course we should look to bring up air quality, moving 100 people in a bus is better than 100 people in cars.

Why do you need to "Flood the streets with busses"? as more people use them you take cars off the road and replace with buses. It's not going to happen overnight but certain the buses are not maxed at the moment. Fill the current buses and then as cars come off road replace them with buses. Again 1 bus v 100 cars, which is better?

Which roads around the city are in poor condition? I am around it all the time and can't think of many, some of the back ones around Finglas maybe springs to mind but that's it.

FYI the plans will be around long after the Green Party if it is removed from government

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000300#Comment_122000300

From what I've seen driving around the city the traffic light sequencing is not working and is creating congestion.

You need to flood the streets with busses so that there is a viable choice to leave the car at home. I can get the bus to work but I can't get it home because they are all full by the time they get to my stop. I can't depend on the bus if I need to be somewhere by a fixed time. 90% of the the time the car will get me there on time. 90% of the time the bus won't get me there close to on time for the return journey.

If everybody left their car at home due to changes, there simply isn't the capacity on for public transport to take them where they need to go. It would take years to get the capacity. The current plan isn't going to work

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000300#Comment_122000300

"The new bus corridors will bring in AI for bus lane enforcement" Where did you hear that one from?

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000279#Comment_122000279

Yes you can and they have to. It would take to long to get busses and drivers if the force people out of their cars.

As people see more dependable busses they will leave the car at home by choice. If they force people into the existing busses, there isn't the capacity to take them. The current bus users lose out too and it becomes a sh1tshow. If they have to have the busses on hand to keep up with demand they intend to create.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121998693#Comment_121998693

DCC or the council are not run by greens, nor would they be the drivign force behind it. It is a lack of drive by government parties whose voters would blame them for the fines they get (majority are not greens), lack of drive by the AGS (who should hand it over to a civilian force to administer) and the RSA (who are funded directly by motorists, so have skin in the game in keeping as many as possible on the road legally with a license).

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999198#Comment_121999198

They got a temporary exemption in the 80s by DCC and its never been revoked, Taxis are not allowed bus lanes outside of this exemption.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000494#Comment_122000494

Going by some of the posts here and in places such as the comments sections on Journal.ie etc. even if a luxury coach turned up at their door to ferry them around it would still not get people out of their private vehicle.

Anyways you're talking about a scenario that will never happen, you will never have a "Perfect" Bus system, or a level of demand that will mean suddenly we need 100's of extra Buses and drivers, but with small measures such as Bus Gates then you may persuade some people to reduce the numbers of journey's they take by car.

Government have consistently failed to invest in public transport, and have also failed to create a safe and secure Cycle-lane network in any Irish city or town, they have also failed via the Gardai to ensure that the issue of bicycle theft has been addressed. So before people start demanding Gold-Plated transport infrastructure they need to demand the basics be put in place first.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999212#Comment_121999212

I know you know this but just for the other poster, they are not mandatory because the government freely admitted they were not safe or fit for purpose.

Also, as you point out, along the quay, in either direction, there are very few points where a bus is even remotely able to go faster than a bike, due to the amount of drivers in the bus lane turning left, the number of drivers sitting on yellow boxes at every bridge at rush hour and because of this, catching up to other buses stopping.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000494#Comment_122000494

i'm not sure why anyone would need to leave the car at home because of these changes though, you can still drive into the city centre. there'll still be ways of passing through town though just your journey may take a little longer.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000505#Comment_122000505

Yeap, was back in 1984 and the Taxi drivers were allowed in, I believe the councils tried to stop that in the 1990's but such was the uproar from the Taxi drivers that it was never officially rescinded .. To such a level where you had the likes of Michael O'Leary of Ryanair buying a Taxi licence for his car so he could be driven around the city in the Bus lanes!

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000477#Comment_122000477

google it and all will be revealed

It’s hardly a secret, the camera form the last proof of concept are still up

65535

I thought the title read 'The crusade against the motorist continues…' - however, now I can see the title only reads

'The crusade against Dublin motorists continues while those of us lucky enough to live outside the pale have to put up with laws that are being made for Dublin only'

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000560#Comment_122000560

one person and how many years ago was that now?
Is he going to do that with a big badge slapped on the side of the car?

Actually it was 2003 he done that, 21 years ago, is it really relevant now?