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UPS invoicing me but I am not a customer

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Comments

  • #52
    JVince
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭JVince


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969502#Comment_121969502

    Then no-one could ever send something from outside the EU into the EU as you'd simply say, sorry, I'm not liable for the taxes and duties as I didn't agree to it.

    As I've said time and time again READ their terms and conditions. It not a difficult thing to do, or maybe those cheerleading the OP don't want to read the terms and conditions as it would dispel all the arguments you have put forward.



  • #53
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    @OP - would be worth reporting the debt collection agency for harassment of a debt you never entered into - are they listed on the central bank website ? If so complain complain complain until you get satisfaction



  • #54
    Oscar_Madison
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,472 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    PS- that’s a UK debt collection agency you referred to - no harm in asking central bank for advice or contacting the uk regulator to complain - I’m not going to say don’t pay as that would be advice not allowed here on boards but considering the amount and the jurisdiction differences I’d certainly get informed first and then decide



  • #55
    standardg60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭standardg60


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969586#Comment_121969586

    But the OP did know what the sender's intentions were, they've told us. The intention was that the OP would pay the charges upon delivery and the sender would reimburse them. Do you not think it's a bit strange that the sender of a surprise gift would contact the OP to arrange this agreement rather than arranging with the courier to cover the charges themselves, which they were going to do anyway?

    The only factual evidence we have is that UPS attempted delivery and the recipient refused to pay the charges. The OP asserts this is lies and they didn't attempt delivery at all and UPS have sent fake correspondence to the OP.

    Accepting the OP's version of events is accepting that UPS are a bunch of liars and fraudsters, i'm not prepared to do that.



  • #56
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,009 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971231#Comment_121971231

    The OP doesn't have the goods and so is not liable for anything. The OP did not sign up to T&Cs so what they say is neither here nor there.



  • #57
    standardg60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,047 ✭✭✭standardg60


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971343#Comment_121971343

    I agree and advised the OP of such in my first post.

    Whether the OP did or didn't refuse the delivery doesn't change that, in case they were wondering.

    UPS has passed the charge to control/collection to 'try' to collect it, but they'll just write it off if OP ignores them.



  • #58
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Just in case it helps OP; if an item is returned, you can claim back the customs fees.

    Also, take a look at this:

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058145947/fedex-charge-for-unsolicited-gift



  • #59
    bobbyD1978
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭bobbyD1978


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972558#Comment_121972558

    How would that be helpful? He didn't pay the customs charges in the first place



  • #60
    j_lennon18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭j_lennon18


    OP here with a good update: Separate departments are dealing with me for each invoice and the one for the import duty of ~€80 just got cancelled (by the Post Entry Team) which is the one they sent the debt collectors after me for so that is finally some good news that they admitted and resolved their mistake on that one. I had a feeling this would be the first to go since a few others in here said they experienced the same issue with them before.

    I am still trying to deal with a different team (First Call Resolution) with regards the other ~€40 invoice. I've asked them for any proof/datetime of contact with me or proof/details of the attempt of delivery or proof/details that I refused delivery for 3 days straight but they ignored those questions and just reiterate their previous stance that I am responsible for this charge so I sent a more succinct reply with just that question to make it clear that is all I am looking from them right now. Their replies have been slow (some between 3-20 days) so it might take a few more days.

    But since I was mostly concerned with the debt collectors, I'm not too bothered by this other fallacious invoice since I have the truth on my side and I am also very lucky to still have CCTV and phone logs around this time to back it up. Having 24hr recording is good for situations like this when you are trying to prove something that never happened versus something that did happen since no event is triggered when no delivery attempts is made. Which is why I am focusing now on asking them for details/datetime of all alleged delivery attempts or contact with me instead of repeating myself to them.

    Thanks again for everyone that has tried to help. There has been more helpful people in here than people that just wanted to argue. 1 user seemed more annoyed than me with all this and even started insulting my parenting skills which I had to laugh at. I will post again if I have anything useful to add about the last invoice. Until then, I will go back to reading the replies and neglecting my kids 😏



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  • #61
    bobbyD1978
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭bobbyD1978


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975477#Comment_121975477

    Got signs up telling people that the cctv exists and may be used in civil matters?

    I realise that's a no for 90% of the population using ring doors, etc but it's still a requirement. Especially if it's recording and used in such a manner.

    Still baffled why you are even bothering though, you are not liable for costs when your never agreed to anything. Just let them twist in the wind.



  • #62
    j_lennon18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭j_lennon18


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978034#Comment_121978034

    Great point to highlight regarding CCTV data! Yes, I do have a notice up that came with one of my cameras. I also record only locally to my server (replaced my Ring doorbell last year with a Reolink doorbell for that reason and to avoid subscriptions) so I am not even sharing to the cloud. I have them on a separate secure network (all Ubiquiti networking gear) from my other devices and have firewall rules to block unnecessary traffic. I also blackout/hide (using Blue Iris) a small part of the edges that could capture neighbors/public area so it doesn't record that section and also helps avoid unnecessary triggered events.

    The 24 recordings (lower quality) & triggered clips (high quality) also get deleted after a short period of time, this is the first time I needed to hold onto proof of something (that didn't happen) so I will delete those days when it is no longer required. When I want to view it live from outside my house, that all goes through Blue Iris & Home Assistant applications which I have a reverse proxy set up with an SSL cert to access it behind a strong password protected account. I use AI software to analyze motion events to make sure notifications only happen when a person is detected (to reduce false alerts) but that is all processed locally on my server too. I don't store a history of people using the AI to have custom smart home events or notifications for different people, it is something I considered doing when I had time but maybe that could have GDPR implications so I will avoid for now.

    But your 100% right, I dont think most people or businesses go to that length and if you feel I am missing another important step then I am all ears as I do take mine & others data seriously (and expect others to do the same) but as I mentioned before I'm definitely not an expert on GDPR (never met anyone that actually is), I'm more just a quiet computer nerd that tries to do things the right way.

    Now that I think of this topic, I also never seen a car (with a dashcam or external cameras like Tesla's) with a notice/sticker up (they are required too). They are recording everywhere while driving around (roads, carparks, estates, front gardens…etc) but the Gardai will still ask and probably use to help build cases. It's an interesting topic that I am still trying to understand. I plan to do a bit more research on it when I get a chance to make sure I am actually doing all the right things.

    And as mentioned in my previous post, since the debt collector invoice got cancelled yesterday, I am less concerned about this situation now with regards the other invoice.



  • #63
    thesandeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978720#Comment_121978720

    🤣 That's telling him 😂.



  • #64
    bobbyD1978
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭bobbyD1978


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121978720#Comment_121978720

    You will find that dashcams are absolutely required to have the same rules and you should also know that various case laws (dpp v lunney for a recent example) specified that illegal cctv in itself doesn't prohibit its use in criminal actions. nor is it the job of gardai to enforce the data protection act 2018. So gardai can absolutely take cctv footage as evidence and it will be for the trial judge to decide if its usable. Judge hunt would absolutely allow it unless it was of a persons Private home. That's where your footage is, right? It's also a civil case you wanted to use it in, correct? That's the issue at play. Most people wouldn't consider cctv for civil cases, more to protect the car and house, etc. Dpc has their own view on that as well.

    The echr takes a more balanced approach when considering the rules but again, the balance of the victim is against the accused in CRIMINAL cases as per the 2017 act and numerous decisions from the chamber. Your case, again is a civil one utilising cctv from a private home so you're argument falls im afraid. In civil cases, lower level of proof but also lower level of allowances. There's a lot of decisions you can read, they tend to be very long winded though. Boring as well but how they reach their decisions and also how often they are split in opinion can be interesting.

    Kudos on being compliant though. It's a rare thing indeed and getting a good result with the debt collectors. They are after low lying fruit.



  • #65
    j_lennon18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭j_lennon18


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983404#Comment_121983404

    Good info 👍 You seem to know a lot more than me! I never had to think about any of this before so its all new to me. I don't expect any criminal or civil case to happen and the footage is just proof of a non-event (no attempt to deliver) anyway which is unusual in itself.

    Thanks. I personally didn't overthink GDPR when originally setting up my (admittedly overcomplicated) setup but networking & smart home is a hobby so I made sure it was secure, local (moving eveything away from cloud/subscription) and respected my awesome neighbours because a camera pointing away from a home is impossible to get a perfect angle to only capture just the garden so using software to mask it felt the right thing to do as I only care about my area and it also helped reduce false alerts.

    And agreed, the 2nd invoice is really just them chancing their aim, I'm sure they will get some people to just pay it but im not worried about that one. And ironically the 2nd invoice for the retuned package was best proof that the other duty invoice was a mistake 😄



  • #66
    PommieBast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983762#Comment_121983762

    Rules regarding CCTV and data protection are a minefield these days, and I suspect it is why the management company of my London apartment block has a blanket ban (clearly not enforced) on smart doorbells with cameras.

    As for the invoice it is surprising how many chancers are out there.



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  • #67
    j_lennon18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 171 ✭✭j_lennon18


    OP back with a final update: They cancelled the 2nd/last invoice. I am not sure what exactly worked as I had multiple tickets open (they created some after different phone calls and been transferred). My last replies were asking for proof of all the lies they claimed and another reply was asking for the person/department to contact to deal with my GDPR concern so maybe one or both of those replies was key to resolving this.

    I still think they shouldn't be sharing personal data to another company of a non-customer (who didn't agree to any terms) beyond the scope of having my details to deliver a package. But with that said, I personally won't follow-up with the GDPR issue as I have more important things to focus my energy on and I wouldn't expect anything to happen anyway. I was really just perusing that path while they had my attention with those 2 incorrect invoices.

    Thanks again everyone for all the advice & interesting debates👍️



  • #68
    daheff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭daheff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969324#Comment_121969324

    not if you are not their customer. A third party (the sender in this case) cannot sign you up to be a UPS customer and cause you to incur UPS charges (or customs charges).

    UPS do not need to hand over the parcel if you refuse to accept these charges though. As the op is not a customer, UPS should not be transferring their details to a third party. Its a GDPR breach in this case, albeit due to an incompetent, lazy mistake by UPS.



  • #69
    JVince
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭JVince


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001820#Comment_122001820

    I suggest you read and understand how GDPR actually works. It is probably the most misunderstood and biggest false excuse quoted legislation.

    I assure you UPS have a right to retain the details until the transaction is complete.



  • #70
    daheff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭daheff


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004966#Comment_122004966

    i do know how it works thank you. I have not said they do not have a right to retain the details. Please re-read my post.

    I have said that they should not be transfer the OPs details to a third party (in the way that they have to a debt recovery agency). The OP has not signed up to them as a customer, so would not have been offered the opportunity to reject allowing UPS to request this permission.



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