UPS invoicing me but I am not a customer

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967746#Comment_121967746

You have zero entitlement to describe me or tell me to do anything.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967746#Comment_121967746

The OP has received utter crap from others.

The OP themselves are being very foolish in their "GDPR" accusatiuon. Terribly obvious they have no clue about gdpr and their email was probably deleted.

They then say they want to go to the gardai about "harassment" - that's even more ridiculous that the gdpr issue.

The CCPC rightfully told the OP to feck off.

I suggest before the op wastes any more time they should reads the very simple terms and conditions of UPS that the SENDER signed and agreed to.

Check the contact details the SENDER provided incl email and phone number.

Ask the SENDER why they ticked the box that the recipient would accept liability for taxes & duties.

And then also ask the SENDER why they didn't just send a little note to say there's a little gift on the way.

Guess where the fault actually lies? - The SENDER. So, best advice on the thread is to ask the SENDER these questions

tphase

couple of things I've learned from dealing with couriers over the years -

1) the reasons for non-delivery are usually bullsh1t. The driver has to tick a box and none of them cover the situation where there aren't enough hours in the day to deliver all the packages in the van or where the driver just can't be arsed. Normally it'll just be "premises closed" or "no one home to accept package"

2) disputing charges with them is a royal pain in the hoop and typically the first few interactions are with a bot. It's a slow process but as long as you have the paperwork to prove your case, you just keep at them.

In this case, I'd first contact the sender to get copies of the shipping documents (waybill and invoice) which presumably will confirm the item was identified as a gift and valued under €45 - in that case, UPS are absolutely at fault and the documentation should be sufficient to prove that

Secondly, request copies of the shipping docs and the attempted delivery record from UPS. This should confirm it's the same shipment, pinpoint the date and time of the attempted delivery and proof of refused delivery (ie your signature).

I would keep all communications in writing. Phone calls can be quicker but you either have to record each call or send a follow up email to confirm the details of what was said/agreed. If you do call, write down the name of the person you're dealing with

Finally, forget the GDPR tack - it's a non-issue

mickdw

I had similar dealing with ups.

Bought an item online. Paid the owner for delivery and a month later I started getting bills for 90 quid.

If I remember right I sent them an email stating I never agreed to pay for any delivery. That was the end of it.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967592#Comment_121967592

Nevertheless, companies cannot hold data about you at random. A courier company can reasonably hold your address to deliver a parcel, but it is not reasonable to hold your address to harass you when you have no business relationship with them and there is no parcel.

j_lennon18

Thanks everyone that has tried to help, I have read them all 👍️

The situation is 100% genuine:

• UPS never tried to deliver or contact me about a package
• UPS are trying to charge me for duty on the item sent back (happened to another poster)
• UPS are charging me for the item been sent back
• UPS created accounts and shared my personal information with another company (maybe others) after I already told them I have no contact/contract/agreement/account with UPS.

I come here for help, spent a lot of time trying to explain 2.5 months worth of information in a succinct manner, I replied to everyone at the start till it became clear 2-3 people were on witch hunt thinking it was a scam or I'm on a wind-up or a troll or that me or the sender should be responsible for UPS not doing their job.

I am not sure how myself or the sender is at fault here. They posted something with my correct address (UPS have no problem sending me invoices to prove that) in good faith that UPS would actually try to deliver (thats their main job). The sender told me about 2 days after sending to expect a late Christmas gift and said they wanted to pay me any duty that I would have to pay so I thank them and go about my life waiting for a knock on the door and ready to pay any duty as I never miss a delivery since I work from home and have CCTV.

It never arrives and I feel something is up so I ask the sender if there was an issue. UPS says I refused the package on 3 consecutive days and the item was sent back to the sender. The sender is embarrassed and wants to send an Amazon gift card instead. We cut our loses and think that is the end but then I receive these invoices. UPS Ireland created these accounts and are invoicing me and will only deal with me, not the sender since on their system its all in my name now. Maybe because UPS (America) and UPS (Ireland) operate independently, I honest dont know why or how they operated but It has become my problem now. The sender actually wants me to just pay it all and they will give me the money as they are very embarrassed about the situation. I tell them I will let UPS know they made multiple mistakes since its all in my name now and wont deal with them and this is were I am at now.

Here is a snippet of the tracking were they lie multiple times that I "refused the delivery" for 3 days:

I didn't think everyone wanted to hear every little low level detail of the situation so I tried to give the important facts of the situation since it is messy. I tried different places like CCPC before coming here but some people are hung up on trying to prove something that is not. And then someone actually throwing the fact I contacted CCPC for help in my face when CCPC were actually agreeing with me that UPS and myself have no agreement and shouldn't be doing this and they also gave advice on looking into GDPR.

I am not an expert on GDPR and never said I was but I think its not unreasonable for someone to feel that their data is mishandled when a company that I had no contract/contact/agreement with is sharing my personal information with a debt collection company (and maybe others) after I already told them of their mistake and told them to delete my data from their system as I never opted into anything. If its not an issue then fine but no harm for me looking into it so at least I know more about GDPR. It was also a suggestion by the person on the CCPC helpline when they heard the story.

As strange as the situation is, it is not unthinkable that a company with 1.1 rating on Trustpilot (1,649 reviews) could make mistakes like this: https://ie.trustpilot.com/review/www.ups.ie

For posterity sake and to help future people I will update this thread with the outcome (might take weeks/months) but no point me adding more personal information here as from my perspective some of the posters behavior feels like they are the ones trolling and nothing I say will be good enough for them (I partly regret making this reply but wanted to for the helpful people).

Thanks again to the helpful posters. I have learnt my lesson posting here and I will be going back to my 20+ years of lurking on here till I have a useful update 👍️

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967142#Comment_121967142

You have only a limited right to demand removal of data. Only data no longer needed or incorrect. Accounting and customs requirements alone will override the request.

Op, ignore it and don't even acknowledge the debt collection agency. You have no contract with either. Return the envelope unopened and they will stop

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968441#Comment_121968441

You do get that OP isn't the sender yeah? And as such may not have access to the answers you so politely requested?

Nice job "helping" out though.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968847#Comment_121968847

it is no longer needed, it was needed for delivery of a parcel, there now is no parcel.

PommieBast

The one time I had trouble with UPS was a COD parcel that I had paid for and accepted. Took delivery at my office and it was not the only time around then UPS had delivered stuff there. Guessing the driver didn't log the cash I handed over. Crazy thing was them calling up what was I think about six months later by which point I had changed companies..

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968943#Comment_121968943

That's not how record keeping works. Every single company in the world keeps records of their transactions. Audits are conducted. They get into a lot of trouble for not keeping them.

Then you have legal obligation. For example,t here was also a customs declaration made, that's subject to a minimum 7 year retention.

You can't have honestly thought that ccompanies scrub their databases did you? Even boards keeps some personal data after you stopped being a user.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968973#Comment_121968973

The company can defend against your request for deletion of data by citing customs requirements and can archive data for this purpose. But they cannot use your data for anything else or make it available to other people.

I'd make them defend their position, you would then find that they'd tighten up, most of this is simply suiting themselves.

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969007#Comment_121969007

That's completely separate to what you said and my reply. You said the op should demand deletion and then challenged me on it. Don't move goalposts.

My stance on how the op should deal with the debt collection agencyt has been stated.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969135#Comment_121969135

I said that the OP should demand deletion, let the company provide any grounds on which it can justify retention.

No goalposts have been moved.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968851#Comment_121968851

Read the UPS terms and conditions - then get back to me.

Fault is entirely with the SENDER.

SENDER signed that they agreed to t&c's, SENDER seems to have given incorrect email/phone number (ups would have send a notification)

UPS carried out the contract they had with the SENDER. Nothing in what the op claims is of any fault of UPS (and I'm not a fan of UPS in any way shape or form).

So when you read the term and conditions the sender agreed to, come back with a comment. You'll realise the sender is who the op needs to direct their ire at.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121968810#Comment_121968810

Read the terms and conditions the sender signed/agreed to. UPS have an absolute right to hold these details until resolution and a right to pass these details to a collection agency working on their behalf.

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969190#Comment_121969190

You said more. You said they no longer needed the data and it should be deleted. You also suggested reporting them if they did not comply. You then replied to myself that they only needed the data for delivery and now, no longer needed it. Both were incorrect

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969324#Comment_121969324

I fail to see how a third party can provide a useful agreement to hold someone's data without that person's knowledge or consent other than for the limited period required to deliver the package. I cannot commit you to a expense nor can you commit me, so debt collection does not enter into it. You can only collect a debt that someone enters into, not one that someone else in a foreign country enters into. These people need to reported for purporting to allow this.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969311#Comment_121969311

Read the thread and then get back to the rest of us.

The OP is not the SENDER and hence cannot answer any questions as to what the SENDER may or may not have done.

Right now you are "busy" directing your ire at the OP who is not the…wait for it… SENDER.

There is nothing the SENDER can sign, agree to or anything else that will make the OP liable for anything. UPS can have whatever terms and conditions they want, its irrelevant. Someone else cant create a contract on your behalf without your knowledge and agreement.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969586#Comment_121969586

as I said, read the terms and conditions the SENDER agreed to. Until then don't reply.

JVince

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969502#Comment_121969502

Then no-one could ever send something from outside the EU into the EU as you'd simply say, sorry, I'm not liable for the taxes and duties as I didn't agree to it.

As I've said time and time again READ their terms and conditions. It not a difficult thing to do, or maybe those cheerleading the OP don't want to read the terms and conditions as it would dispel all the arguments you have put forward.

Oscar_Madison

@OP - would be worth reporting the debt collection agency for harassment of a debt you never entered into - are they listed on the central bank website ? If so complain complain complain until you get satisfaction

Oscar_Madison

PS- that’s a UK debt collection agency you referred to - no harm in asking central bank for advice or contacting the uk regulator to complain - I’m not going to say don’t pay as that would be advice not allowed here on boards but considering the amount and the jurisdiction differences I’d certainly get informed first and then decide

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969586#Comment_121969586

But the OP did know what the sender's intentions were, they've told us. The intention was that the OP would pay the charges upon delivery and the sender would reimburse them. Do you not think it's a bit strange that the sender of a surprise gift would contact the OP to arrange this agreement rather than arranging with the courier to cover the charges themselves, which they were going to do anyway?

The only factual evidence we have is that UPS attempted delivery and the recipient refused to pay the charges. The OP asserts this is lies and they didn't attempt delivery at all and UPS have sent fake correspondence to the OP.

Accepting the OP's version of events is accepting that UPS are a bunch of liars and fraudsters, i'm not prepared to do that.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971231#Comment_121971231

The OP doesn't have the goods and so is not liable for anything. The OP did not sign up to T&Cs so what they say is neither here nor there.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971343#Comment_121971343

I agree and advised the OP of such in my first post.

Whether the OP did or didn't refuse the delivery doesn't change that, in case they were wondering.

UPS has passed the charge to control/collection to 'try' to collect it, but they'll just write it off if OP ignores them.

3DataModem

Just in case it helps OP; if an item is returned, you can claim back the customs fees.

Also, take a look at this:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058145947/fedex-charge-for-unsolicited-gift

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972558#Comment_121972558

How would that be helpful? He didn't pay the customs charges in the first place

j_lennon18

OP here with a good update: Separate departments are dealing with me for each invoice and the one for the import duty of ~€80 just got cancelled (by the Post Entry Team) which is the one they sent the debt collectors after me for so that is finally some good news that they admitted and resolved their mistake on that one. I had a feeling this would be the first to go since a few others in here said they experienced the same issue with them before.

I am still trying to deal with a different team (First Call Resolution) with regards the other ~€40 invoice. I've asked them for any proof/datetime of contact with me or proof/details of the attempt of delivery or proof/details that I refused delivery for 3 days straight but they ignored those questions and just reiterate their previous stance that I am responsible for this charge so I sent a more succinct reply with just that question to make it clear that is all I am looking from them right now. Their replies have been slow (some between 3-20 days) so it might take a few more days.

But since I was mostly concerned with the debt collectors, I'm not too bothered by this other fallacious invoice since I have the truth on my side and I am also very lucky to still have CCTV and phone logs around this time to back it up. Having 24hr recording is good for situations like this when you are trying to prove something that never happened versus something that did happen since no event is triggered when no delivery attempts is made. Which is why I am focusing now on asking them for details/datetime of all alleged delivery attempts or contact with me instead of repeating myself to them.

Thanks again for everyone that has tried to help. There has been more helpful people in here than people that just wanted to argue. 1 user seemed more annoyed than me with all this and even started insulting my parenting skills which I had to laugh at. I will post again if I have anything useful to add about the last invoice. Until then, I will go back to reading the replies and neglecting my kids 😏

bobbyD1978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975477#Comment_121975477

Got signs up telling people that the cctv exists and may be used in civil matters?

I realise that's a no for 90% of the population using ring doors, etc but it's still a requirement. Especially if it's recording and used in such a manner.

Still baffled why you are even bothering though, you are not liable for costs when your never agreed to anything. Just let them twist in the wind.