Breaking - Shooting and Explosion at Concert Hall in Moscow

We dont know how they were captured or even if these are the attackers.

But it seems reasonable to propose such attackers would expect they might be intercepted and prepare measures to ensure they wouldnt be taken alive.

Ya walking willingly towards the tender loving care of the FSB is the easy way out...

There's always a possibility that things will not go according to plan, and that's included in the plan too, and why you have "PLAN B". But the theatre attack went pretty much to plan, I'd say. They entered the theatre, carried out the plan, and made their escape. Plan B may have entailed a fight to the death (Martyrdom) had they miscalculated the police / military presence there, or the arrival of the police / military arriving before they had finished and trapping them inside. All of this would have been discussed and planned for. The rule is " Fail to plan, plan on failing". And it was not the first time they had been on operations like this, in my view.

Well, most ISIS terrorists wind up killing themselves (kind of odd that these guys didn't and allowed themselves to get captured) but who knows - maybe they are still at large.

As to Moscow, it looks much better if they catch suspects without letting them kill themselves. Putting suspects in a dock publicly is a win-win situation for Putin.

Where is the absolute conclusion stated in my post?

As I said it is reasonable to propose it given the apparent planning that went into the attack, and the types of 'martyrdoms' from attackers such as these following terrorist attacks.

Do you disagree?

Are you speaking from experience when you say thats not a reasonable thing to propose?

It is entirely reasonable to propose that we consider that the guys caught may not actually be the attackers.

End of the day you dont have a clue either, dont have an iota of detail therefore so on what basis is it unreasonable that we consider that?

Yes. It was definitely Islamists, even Putin admits that now, but four guys who'd let themselves be taken alive by Russian security forces after committing a horrendous massacre? Sounds dubious...till you remember the Bataclan guys also fled and some were later captured alive. So not impossible

No, they are not posing any challenge to Putin militarily, but they will increase people's mistrust of him as being capable of protecting them, and as my Russian friend told me that the other day, civilians are now getting scared about their own safety. Random ISIS attacks will definitely increase that fear and weaken confidence in Putin.

They have 11 of them, killing the 4 gunmen looks good

uts like try to expect unexpected

You can't

These things are seat of the pants shooting civilians at a concert, it's not rocket science

The guys planning it don't give a **** about the people doing the grunt work

I don't think that's right: I remember reading about the Bataclan killers that they were clearly not just randomers who'd been handed guns and told to go in and open fire, that it's not easy to do everything that's needed to get as far as actually killing large numbers of people, and that's why the Bataclan guys were hardened soldiers who'd fought in (I think it was) Syria.

I'm sure it's possible to do something with four village idiots from the Siberian equivalents of Ballygobackwards, but if so, the chances are they'll get caught before anyone is killed, or they might get one or two policemen before they get taken out. No way are they going to get in, kill over a hundred people, burn the place to the ground and make a getaway even for a few hours.

I guess it's possible the four in custody might be the B team, who were there to take the fall to allow the main guys to get out? Just a random thought, I've no idea how likely that is, but it doesn't seem impossible.

Not what I said, and I was referring to comments from analysts of the Bataclan, not my own musings (the first bit I mean)

Sorry I don't see the link between becoming a soldier and growing up a developed country. You become a trained soldier in a war. Not at university.

And no need for indoor plumbing either.

I don't mean to be rude but in your own words there is no correlation between Russia being evil and birth rate. You just seem to have a particular dislike of Russia which may be well merited. Fwiw, we're below replacement in Ireland too, 1.7 births per woman.

I've never lived in countries invaded by Russia/ USA. I was in Vietnam backpacking but didn't live there. I've lots of friends in the US and it's hard not to feel connected to it but their foreign policy is a disaster. I think they've gone off the rails since the eighties. I heard good things about Russia from the nineties and people who went there but I've never been. Maybe that's why I fail to understand why they are so much more evil than the USA as you claim.

Anyone can be drafted to be a soldier, it's no basis for education or intelligence, you are just fed into the meat grinder

Sorry to disagree with you monkeybutter, but organizing and carrying out a deadly attack in a heavily policed city like Moscow, and getting away safely afterwards, is NOT a seat of the pants endeavor, for sure!!! Have a look at any of the SAS-Seal movies out there and see the amount of planning that goes into them. That will give you some idea about what such an operation involves. The only difference being the scale of things.