Breaking - Shooting and Explosion at Concert Hall in Moscow

Brussels Sprout

Are the 4 men who this is being pinned on and, who are currently being tortured to within an inch of their lives, actually the men who committed the massacre on Friday night?

All of the images and video from that night, that I have seen, either have their faces blurred or they are too far away to see their faces.

Is there any definitive link between those 4 and the attack beyond the FSB saying it was them and their "confessions"?

On the one hand we have descriptions of the men who carry out the act clearly showing proficiency in coldly and calmly murdering large numbers of people - the implication that they were battle hardened veterans who maybe had experience fighting in Syria or some place like that. I haven't seen the videos but I believe in the ones that ISIS released on Saturday night they can be heard speaking Arabic to each other.

The details of the 4 captured men don't quite fit that bill though. They appear to be migrant labourers from Tajikistan. One of them is a 19 year old hairdresser (the guy who was wheeled into court unconscious and in what looked like a surgical gown). Furthermore Arabic isn't spoken in Tajikstan

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936635#Comment_121936635

Those Islamic scumbags more than likely have told the FSB all they know anyway at this stage. It doesn't matter what it is anyway the Kremlin will use the attack to their advantage no matter what.

Also ethical issues? They lost all their rights when they decided to kill men and women but especially children who where completely innocent in cold blood. Fcuk them and their rights.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936639#Comment_121936639

Yep, I hope to **** they are. Otherwise 4 entirely innocent people have been tortured for the sake of public image. I do have some doubts that they are them, suicide is pretty common in these kinds of cases.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936658#Comment_121936658

They'd probably even confess to doing it, even if they didn't, if they were being tortured that badly. There's those ethical issues and rights to consider also.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936639#Comment_121936639

A lot of the boardies here have the four arrested already condemned and deserve to worst treatment possible. Anyone with even half a brain and no formal education and ‘brought up ’in some kind of a civil society would be ABSOLUTLY abhorred by the treatment meted out to these four individuals, the process that was/is being used to apprehend them,etc, etc.

I hope that the Russians did not go to some prison and said to a line up of prisoners - having first talked to the prison warden and said we want you and you and you and you for a SPECIAL MISSION on behalf of the MOTHERLAND and the COMMON GOOD

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936658#Comment_121936658

So firstly, we actually don't know for definite that these are the perpetrators. Secondly, do you think extreme torture is used for recruitment with the likes of ISIL? It absolutely is and it's well documented.

The Nuremberg trials didn't involve large-scale torturing of Nazis. Historically we don't look back on it and say they should have tortured them a bit more. Cause, behaving humanely came far closer to justice and we got the details of everything they did. Instead, Russia can create whatever narrative they want and claim torturing and a gulag as closure on the topic.

Montage of Feck

Might as well believe that it was four Czechoslovakian interior decorators that carried out the attack, if your going to believe anything coming from the Russian state.

Richard Hillman

I just don't get it. ISIS fighters are ready to die. It's a hardened belief that they'll go to heaven as martyrs.

If they are ISIS, death was a far better outcome than going on the run and being captured. It just isn't in their playbook.

The story is that they were recruited via telegram and paid around 500k rubbles (around €5,000) to do it. 5k in any country isn't enough to do wild stuff like that, where you're expected to die and your 5k is worth nothing.

There's a video of one being captured and he was shivering with fear. Another of a picture where the accused has this testicles attached to a electronic shock device. One of the appear to have his ear chopped off.

Im just suspicious that just rounded up some random migrant workers for the public image.

rogber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936536#Comment_121936536

If these really are the perpetrators I have no sympathy for them.

If they are just some random ethnic guys they picked up then it's horrendous.

Either way, kind of shocking that they would be visibly tortured then put before the public, zero pretence that suspects have any rights in this hellhole of a country

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936639#Comment_121936639

It's very unlikely that the attackers were arabs, none of the ex-russian *stan / muslim countries are arabic, and the ISIS branch who claimed the attack is not arabic.

As for the state of the attackers, that's also for show, to give the public some sense of punishment and revenge.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936616#Comment_121936616

Are you not going to advocate that they get a proper trial first before you go slicing their balls off and wishing rape upon them?

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936658#Comment_121936658

Except, there's a very good chance that the lads in custody are patsies. But yeh, fuk them and their rights, eh?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936792#Comment_121936792

they were running around without their faces covered right? hard to not have the right guys so

and IS release photos of them

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121935776#Comment_121935776

First, I am making a point about Russia, not world population trends as you seem to think. But while on the subject, I think that world population figures are due to peak in 2050 and will drop steadily after that. But even now, some countrys (Russia for one) are not even at replacement level. I guess living in Russia may have may have left a lasting impression on me of what Russia is like under Putin. There's absolutely no comparison to be made between Japan and Russia. None. Japan is a highly regulated law-abiding society, who have by and large kept their old traditions and values to this day. They are extremely strict on who they will allow to even live there, never mind get citizenship. If the Japanese population is dropping, it's a choice they make, but not because they cannot afford kids, or are afraid that their kids will be conscripted into a madman's war, or will have to live in sub-standard housing, or live in a world where corruption rule, and is highly disorganized, the complete opposite to Japan. Which is what Russian Women face. Niger is completely irrelevant to the discussion. I mentioned at the beginning that there's no corruption free country on the planet, and I stand by that. I never claimed that the US was perfect. Actually, the subject of the conversation is the Theatre bombing in Moscow, and that's what I was replying to, If you want to start a thread about US activities abroad, then feel free to go ahead.

(BTW, have you ever lived abroad in any of the Countries the US, or Russia invaded? ) Just asking.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936321#Comment_121936321

On balance. I'd say that split up would be the best chance.. but it all depends on what was planned. There's huge commercial traffic on Russian roads, 24 hrs day and night, and while there's many checkpoints, which would be exttra vigilant now after what's happened, but that will die down again after a while, and then it will be business as usual, the checkpoints will revert to being micro-income generating businesses. But given the amount of planning that went into the theatre attack, I'm sure that the escape plan has been implemented too. It's quite possible that they could even have left Moscow city directly after the killing, and before all checkpoints were even in place. We will find out in time.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936549#Comment_121936549

No, I'd say that they stuck 100% to the arranged plan. Each had his part to play, And when they had played their parts, that was it. Job done. While they are maybe happy with their day's "work", I'd say that they had planned a much higher death toll. They locked all the exits (shows how well they knew the building; they were able to access the roof and spread fire accelerant and place explosives) The plan was that many more would have been killed in the roof collapse and fire. Luckily for the survivors it didn't quite go according to plan.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936895#Comment_121936895

When was that photo supposed to be of been taken ? I don't think those in the ISIS photo were the attackers, which does not mean that ISIS did not carry out the attack.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936895#Comment_121936895

IS released blurred photos of them and (I believe) blurred videos of them.

I don't know if any unblurred videos or pictures are available where they are clearly identifiable - This was what I was asking on my earlier post. Is there actually any verifiable evidence that these are the 4 responsible?

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121935805#Comment_121935805

I would lean towards the 2nd one too. Inept Russian intelligence services. Remember they were also supposed to be an excellently equipped modern army that would sweep through Ukraine in days, until the truth was shown. Vlad is in behind the curtain pulling the strings.

Nonetheless, you will still have the Putin fans in Russia who either will not hear of any US warnings or will dismiss them as Ukrainian lies.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936639#Comment_121936639

Thats a very good point, and I'm pretty sure that there will be more discrepancies apparent as time goes by. Personally, I'm pretty sure that the real culprits are well away by now.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936658#Comment_121936658

That assumes that the men the FSB captured are the real culprits, and I have my doubts about that...to many slick facts meant to fit Ukraine into the pic.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937154#Comment_121937154

Yep I know Russia have largely avoided these kinds of attacks over the years and that's likely because state security was probably more effective pre war. This comes across as it falling apart in the intervening years.

brickster69

Some big twitter account got caught doctoring the original Isis image.

https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status/1771565111972364777

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936676#Comment_121936676

Ethical issues and Rights to consider...in Putins Russia, I'm pretty sure that they have heard those words ( and many similar) but what their meaning is has long been lost, never mind being acted upon. (except of course when the EU/UK/ US are perceived as having infringed them regarding Russia.)

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936729#Comment_121936729

Had these 4 men that the Russians picked up being the real ISIS culprits, they would have fought to the death, for sure, And that's another fact that confirms that they're not the real culprits, or members of ISIS. They know full well what methods the FSB use to achieve such a high confession rate for any crimes they investigate. But its not absolute that each and every action ISIS take will end in Martyrdom. Thats reserved for suicide bombers etc. but not in the case like the Theatre attack, which they all survived. To kill another day...maybe next time, martyrdom will be achieved. I hope so!!

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937239#Comment_121937239

Surely an "independent analyst" like that wouldn't be doing the bidding of the Kremlin propaganda wing?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937353#Comment_121937353

If @brickster69 checked the comments, that account has mirrored the image resulting in the text making absolutely no sense.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937353#Comment_121937353

It is in fact doing the opposite. They doctored the image to make it appear they were raising the right hand not the left and never realized they mirrored the flag wording also, like the comments in the thread say from people who understand arabic.

What possible benefit would it be to the Kremlin by doing that ?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121937498#Comment_121937498

The account that you linked to is the one mirroring the image.(Selfie mode on a phone often does that mirroring btw) I'm not sure if this is the scandal you think it is....

lizzyjane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121936536#Comment_121936536

I am sure they will get the standard judicial process, but its good to see these evil bastards have been roughed up a bit by the Russian authorities, it may act as a deterrent although I somewhat doubt that as there is no bargaining with these backward savages.