Breaking - Shooting and Explosion at Concert Hall in Moscow

Beaten to a pulp, probably just random guys they'll pin it on to look like heroes for catching them

it's a 27 minute drive for a civilian between the Kremlin and the concert hall. It took first responders 1.5 hours?

My own personal view of the world, and I've seen quite a bit of it, (inc. Russia) and its individual countries is that this side of heaven, the perfect country simply doesn't exist. I trust none of them completely. So, you will have the most and least corrupt countries to choose from. Now for all its imperfections, the US is still the most desirable destination in the world (or if not the most desirable, then definitely in the top 5) Then on the other end of the scale, you have the likes of N Korea, China, and last but not least Russia (of course you have other countries or states too which would not be first choice destinations), but for now, we stick with 1 of the 3 mentioned, Russia. It's a country that is so corrupt that even its population is dropping dramatically as women refuse to bring babies into it. There's no long queues at its borders waiting to get in, unlike the US, which actually has a problem trying to keep people out. Russia has a problem trying to keep people in.

Here in the west, citizens are protected by laws that actually work..there are stable institutions, and by and large, society lives within acceptable boundaries. Russia is the complete opposite, and so for all its faults, give me the west any day. And as for choosing who or what to believe, give me the US/West versions all day long before what comes out of that factory of lies they call the Kremlin. And that comes from personal experience and observation.

It's a country that is so corrupt that even its population is dropping dramatically as women refuse to bring babies into it.

So by your logic Japan is also very corrupt as its population is dropping but transparency internation rates it 16th best whereas Niger with the highest birth rate in the world must be beyond repute but transparency international rate it 125th best.

You seem to have a particular dislike for Russia rating it worse North Korea but just look at the stats 81 coups by the USA. Whose factory of lies is worse? Perhaps Russia tells a higher percentage of lies in their communiques but the consequences of USA lies has devastated countries all over the world.

Anyway, my only point was, it's probably best to demand evidence from both Russia / USA in this issue.

I would lean towards the second option here. The Russian intelligence apparatus internally is obsessed with people who are anti-Putin and the Putin regime. But these IS groups are not anti-Putin, they are anti-everyone who is not them so they slip under the radar. The intelligence apparatus is also stretched because of Russia's involvement in Ukraine. Plus they can't be seen to be heeding a warning from the US as you point out.

When America told the world Russia was going to invade Ukraine no one believed them, even Russia themselves!!

Who turned out to be telling the truth then?

Yeah I would be believing whatever America says on this one over any other country.

Another thought re apparent perpretators making their way towards the UKr border. Is it possible that a small group ( a cell?)- drawn from one of the Russian states that has a large Muslim pop and resent being forcefully being conscripted - of Russian soldiers, having being adequately trained , took ‘ a few days off to visit’ Moscow and were ‘caught’ on their way back to the front?

The atrocity seemed to be carried out with great precision - with a LOT of local knowledge and intimate details re building, response times re security service reaction time, etc, etc. so it beggars belief if the group had also not planned its escape route/method down to the last detail. Two things come to mind in this respect - would lying low in Moscow be a safer strategy and also split up rather than sticking together. I suppose both of these would depend on their work accommodation position before carrying out the atracity

Abusing and torturing suspects/detainees is not good, no matter what they are accused of and no matter how likely it is that they did what they are accused of. Did I actually need to say this (🙄), what a world!

Anyways as usual what else do you expect from a pig but a grunt, and what else do you expect from Russian state but torturing people in custody and even showing off and taking pride in it in this case!🤢

Did it take them 90 minutes to show up or 90 minutes before they breached the theatre?

They look in good nick considering what they are.

Are the 4 men who this is being pinned on and, who are currently being tortured to within an inch of their lives, actually the men who committed the massacre on Friday night?

All of the images and video from that night, that I have seen, either have their faces blurred or they are too far away to see their faces.

Is there any definitive link between those 4 and the attack beyond the FSB saying it was them and their "confessions"?

On the one hand we have descriptions of the men who carry out the act clearly showing proficiency in coldly and calmly murdering large numbers of people - the implication that they were battle hardened veterans who maybe had experience fighting in Syria or some place like that. I haven't seen the videos but I believe in the ones that ISIS released on Saturday night they can be heard speaking Arabic to each other.

The details of the 4 captured men don't quite fit that bill though. They appear to be migrant labourers from Tajikistan. One of them is a 19 year old hairdresser (the guy who was wheeled into court unconscious and in what looked like a surgical gown). Furthermore Arabic isn't spoken in Tajikstan