World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Files

The only one dreaming is you with your "Nazi 2.0 transphobic agenda is coming" nonsense.

They’re really not screaming stop, they’re going well beyond their remit as clinicians and into the realm of politics - Dr. Bell decided to air his dirty laundry in public by throwing the management team at the Tavistock under the bus, Dr. O’ Shea had a falling out with the HSE over the fact that the HSE had begun to take advice from TENI and other advocacy organisations, and last year he ramped the fearmongering up to 11:

https://www.newstalk.com/news/activists-brain-washing-hse-management-on-gender-recognition-bill-1438035

This is in a background where the trans demographic hasn’t changed at all, where the reason FtM were in the minority is because one of the conditions of treatment previously was mandatory sterilisation. Most people who sought treatment didn’t want to undergo forced sterilisation (no medical justification for it whatsoever), but because of their advocacy, mandatory sterilisation was considered a human rights violation for which those who were subjected to it are now being compensated by Government in the countries where the practice was done -

Netherlands:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN28B5UW/

Germany:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1YZ0YE/

Sweden:

https://www.rfsl.se/en/aktuellt/historic-victory-trans-people-swedish-parliament-decides-compensation-forced-sterilizations/

France:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN12E03U/

Japan:

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/25/victory-transgender-rights-japan

United States:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/its-not-just-japan-many-us-states-require-transgender-people-get-sterilized

And sure what’s the harm in just asking a question in the UK, cos they want to have a debate:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trans-people-japan-sterilise-the-economist-twitter-lgbt-discrimination-a8832041.html

Completely benign, naturally 😒

When children's care come down to pumping them full of drugs so they fit into certain characteristics that is deemed normal, whatever that is, is a failure. We know this for years, it's nothing new.

Really? Any equivalent examples, where clinical advice is taken from activists over the heads of actual doctors?

TENI opposes what they call the "traditional model" of trans healthcare which involves detailed assessment before getting medication or surgeries, which as far as I know, is how the National Gender Service works. It's a pretty serious conflict in clinical policy, certainly not "office politics".

It would be like me going to my GP asking for the range of treatment options for whatever ails me, and demanding that I get one particular drug, even though the doctor thinks it won't help me. And while there's no doubt that does happen, I don't expect the HSE to endorse it.

I can agree with you on the excessive labeling point. Trying to fit a real person with a complex personality into a single labelled bin is not progressive.

But to answer your question directly -- a person may want to change their body to align their self-perception with the external appearance, or for social reasons, i.e. to better blend in with a majority group, or for several reasons. In any case, the result is that by changing their body, they improve their quality of life, whether through being at peace with themselves or through the social acceptance.

No analogy is perfect :) I don't know who deals with the trans care for minors, but hopefully minors do not need to wait for years and years.

Specifically for kids, my opinion is that puberty blockers should be allowed, but only for very carefully selected cases. There are kids that express gender dysphoria from a very young age, and it is a consistent and not a pretend feeling. For these very clear cases, I would be 100% for puberty blockers because otherwise their transition later becomes exponentially harder.

The reason I said I took your point at face value is because I didn’t say anything about taking clinical advice from advocacy groups, and I certainly didn’t claim that their advice was taken over the heads of actual doctors. More times it simply isn’t, and in this case it isn’t any different - the advice from TENI and other advocacy groups isn’t being taken over the heads of clinicians, any more than the advice of clinicians is being taken over the heads of the legal profession in regards to the proposed amendments to the Gender Recognition Act to lower the age requirement to 16 in order to apply for a GRC.

But the most obvious and far more common example is in the area of maternity care and the provision of healthcare in clinical settings, where the HSE sought the opinions of patients who have availed of the services of the public healthcare system, and found them to be wanting:

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/our-health-service/healthcare-communication/nhcp-review-of-nmes-communication-in-healthcare.pdf

TENI are certainly opposed to the traditional model of care, not just on the basis that they argue it’s invasive, but what they advocate for in it’s place is a model of informed consent:

https://teni.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/TENI-Brief-Model-of-Care.pdf

The reason it’s a serious conflict in clinical policy (and the office politics I refer to is the internal politics and conflict in both the NGS and GIDS in the UK based on clinicians and managements differences of opinion), is because not only do clinicians not take too kindly to the perception that their opinions are being undermined, they also don’t take too kindly to their methods being questioned either.

And yes, it would be exactly like you going to your GP, or any clinician, and demanding that you get one particular drug even though your GP or the clinician doesn’t think it will help you, in fact they’re absolutely certain it will be detrimental and far too great a risk to your overall health and mental wellbeing, but the purpose of the model of informed consent is that ultimately it is your decision. The HSE really doesn’t have that much of a say in the matter, they must abide by Irish law:

https://assets.hse.ie/media/documents/ncr/hse-national-consent-policy.pdf

In practice however, it’s definitely not endorsed, and the HSE have themselves well covered in this regard - they listen, and they’ve got the published reports to demonstrate that they listen, but in practice it’s a very different story, and a relatively benign procedure such as a hip replacement for example can quickly turn into a serious conflict of interest if the patient doesn’t consent to the procedure as determined by clinicians. The anaesthetist was particularly upset, the consultant was a bit more understanding - reluctant to proceed in accordance with the patient’s wishes, but after filling out a considerable amount of paperwork which wouldn’t have been necessary for a routine procedure, the operation proceeded smoothly and the outcome was a positive result.

I don’t recommend it though. The point being that in any clinical setting, the patient must be able to exercise informed consent, or must have the ability to exercise informed consent through an advocate on their behalf.

So you would "accept the judgement of the adolescents parents" if they refused to go down the medicalization route? Yeah right. You'd be screaming about Nazis and probably calling for their kids to be removed so they could be transitioned against their wishes.

I think this "one day" will be coming fairly soon, when more of the young people whose lives have been destroyed start coming forward.

You can, by right, demand whatever the hell you want. That doesn’t mean you’re going to get it. I was working within the framework which you provided, which is that the clinician must give you the information in an objective manner, and while their opinions based upon their expertise is certainly worthy of consideration, ultimately it is a decision that must be made by the patient.

The 120 page document I provided was simply to demonstrate the importance of informed consent in HSE policies, the document was updated in 2022 to take account of changes in Irish law. If you want to frame it in terms of the treatments a doctor wants you to have, it’s really just the same thing - doctor wants you to have a particular treatment, you refuse that particular treatment and demand a different treatment, it raises a conflict between patient and clinician, and makes things pretty inconvenient all round, which is why clinicians who are used to traditional or standard practice, are understandably reluctant to deviate from traditional practice.

Where Dr. O’ Shea and colleagues are concerned, their point is that they don’t want to deviate from standard practice because they’re dealing with patients who have been treated elsewhere and are now being seen by them. It’s a legitimate concern, but it’s not one that should ultimately determine policy here in Ireland, which is why they feel they’re not being listened to by the HSE and go crying to the media that they’re not being listened to, which is simply not true:

"It doesn't surprise me that the WPATH model is in the Programme for Government," Prof O’Shea said.

"The activist agenda in this trans space, is dominant within HSE. To the point that, they're ignoring completely our advice based on clinical experience over 25 years that the activist agenda is resulting in harm."

The HSE rejects the notion that it had succumbed to an activist agenda that was causing harm. In its statement it said that was "not true".

"It is recognised best practice to develop a Model of Care in a consultative way, engaging with all relevant stakeholders...It is possible to argue that service users and patient representatives are "activists," and that all or some such groups should not be involved in developing Models of Care, but this is not the HSE approach," it said.

https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2023/1214/1422073-leading-doctors-complain-hse-to-hiqa-over-transgender-care/

I certainly would accept that for the time where they are the responsible adult. If they attempted to transition in a none supportive environment it would be bad for everyone - especially the child.

You have a very perverse way of looking at what I have explicitly said on numerous occasions.

Or move to the UK and have the procedure done on the NHS:

https://archive.ph/ryXBA

Clearing my browser cache now 😒

Talking of batshit crazy.

When you proceed from the assumption that all the transgender noise is coming from transgender activist everything else cannot be taken remotely seriously. The majority of the noise is coming from hard line conservatives campaigning against the very existence of transgenderism.

"Personally I have nothing against transgender people" - pull the other one.

More sensationalist bunkum tbh.

Naturally there are some quarters that want to remove trans folk from existence, just like there are hardliners about religion, immigration, etc, but to blanket label everyone that asks prudent questions is disingenuous at BEST, at worst it's a deliberate attempt to shut people down, to shame them into not speaking their mind, a preemptive cancellation attempt.

We have seen multiple instances of the cancel culture propagated by trans extremists and people are wise to it, the dogma will no longer be accepted and the world will be a better place for it.