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Varadkar: "It's not the state's responsibility (to provide a home and an education)"

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,342 ✭✭✭OfflerCrocGod


    Possibly. I've a feeling very little will actually change. Sure SF might spend a small amount more but it's not an enormous amount. I'd say the only real difference is they'd be more aggressive about a border poll.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,308 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It IS the state's responsibility to look after its citizens. That's one of the basic points of a state in the first place.

    But nobody who's been following politics in this country should be remotely surprised at a Fine Gael politician coming out with such a viewpoint. It's simply one of their members coming out with their usual neo-liberal trash which basically says to hell with people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,308 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Fine Gael couldn't give a fuck about our appalling housing situation. The fact that there's an entire generation that will never own their own home means nothing to them. Nor does the ticking time bomb that that particular reality represents mean anything to them either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...i actually disagree with this, they clearly do, but they have a significant inability to step back from their fundamental ideological beliefs, explained by yourself above, and accept, its a monumental failure....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,219 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yet in the last 12 months alone about 130k people have been given these by the State, who knows what this year will bring.


    It's a very bizarre experiment across much of Europe, especially here though.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭dsmythy


    He doesn't think it's the state's responsibility to look after HIS parents is my reading of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,342 ✭✭✭OfflerCrocGod


    Housing is simple to fix. Within X km of center of Dublin/Galway etc to Y km anyone can build on any land they own up to 5 stories. From Y to Q up to 4 stories and so on.

    No chance any party will do that. SF will carry in the same manner the current government is.

    No party will tell people they don't have a right to block development.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...these are not solution's in any country that is attempting to create a democratic one, so, go again!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,308 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Do they though?

    I don't think they care that much at all about what the lack of housing means to people here, except in terms of the damage that it might do to them as a party. I certainly don't believe that the impact on the homeless generation they've helped create means much to them. A generation that's been condemned to a life of renting in a sector that's notoriously viscous, extremely volatile, and has never been set up to be anything more than a temporary affair.

    Fine Gael (and Fianna Fail, let's not forget them) have destroyed our private housing situation, aren't interested in a public housing solution, and hocked our renters off to the (non-existent) "mercy" of the private sector.

    A monumental failure for sure. but one that's baked into the very core of their neo-liberal politics.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Spencer Nutritious Stream


    where did this idea come from that it’s the states responsibility to house and educate you exactly?

    Granted attendance at school is mandatory so they are doing their part to ensure we all receive one, however it’s not their job to get kids to school in the morning or indeed engage with the classes and teachers.

    As far as housing goes this isn’t the first time a thread like this has been made and i am still no clearer on how exactly it is a governments responsibility to house you? I would argue similarly to providing schools to attend outside of making sure there’s houses available (by way of not restricting planning etc spuriously) they’ve done their part.

    I definitely wouldn’t agree it’s their responsibility to make sure I have a house, education and the same for my family. It’s my responsibility to ensure we have a roof over our head and the kids get to school.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Plenty of people do. Aside from PAYE, USC, PRSI etc, you have tax on your home, car, most of the services that you use and most of the products that you consume.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...yea i actually think they do, i was lucky to catch pascal at a public talk a few months ago, he does actually come across as being very empathic towards those in trouble, but very disturbingly so unwilling to accept their failures, and what they have proposed, simply wont work, so yes, i do think they actually do care, but.....

    ...again, i do completely agree with you in regards the fundamental of their ideologies, and its failures, but it is extremely disturbing to see how intelligent folks such as pascal simply dont see it or get it, and never will....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,308 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Words mean nothing, especially from a politician's mouth. They're very adept at saying the "right" thing and then doing the complete opposite.

    It's the deed that matters in the end.

    If you want to see how the likes of Fine Gael truly think about our housing, and other essential social stances, just look at the current state of them.



  • Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The state can and does force kids to go to school.


    The state never gave free housing and it never bid against its own citizens for limited supply of private housing.

    The state has made a balls of it in so many ways, following Thatcherite policy.

    1. removing state builds (what a monumental screw up that was)
    2. selling existing state stock
    3. allowing apartments to be built in "commuter" areas, instead of city centre
    4. purchasing, on the open market, entire developments

    It all comes back to selling existing social stock while, at the same time, not replenishing that with state builds.

    The state WAS involved and absolutely made a balls of it, they should not be able to wash their hands of a mess they made.


    Comments like yours would be their excuse for pulling Sláintecare, not building more hospitals (very much needed given population increase), or removing SUSI and hiking existing fees.

    Society should not be just for the wealthy and I want my taxes to actually benefit that society.


    Also, simply put, providing social housing relieves pressure on the private rental and purchase market. That pressure is impacting public and private workforce availability. If they do not invest in housing, we will pay for it in 10-20 years and it will be a lot more expensive to fix.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    But nobody who's been following politics in this country should be remotely surprised at a Fine Gael politician coming out with such a viewpoint. 

    He didn't come out with this viewpoint though. People are getting angry over something that didn't happen, which is exactly the point of this thread.

    People have fallen for the OP's ploy of making things up to suit his own far-right agenda but reporting it as fact.

    If people cannot separate fact from very obvious fiction, we're all fncked. Getting your news from boards.ie or very nasty twitter accounts like the one used in the OP is a very bad idea, it can only lead to bad things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭nachouser


    If you actually listen to about 4 mins of the actual interview, the thread title and the op are completely out of context as to what was actually said.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Spencer Nutritious Stream


    Just sounds like a lot of shifting responsibilities to someone else imo.

    Im well aware it’s mandatory to attend school, I literally said that. Although you can not attend a public school provided your child is receiving tuition or homeschooling.

    It’s the government’s responsibility to provide public services and adequate ones it is not their job to make sure you have a house. Thats your problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,656 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    So how would you enforce that rule ?

    Judging on your comments by immiserating parent and child.

    We tried that and it doesn't work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,656 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Ha, Sunshine 🌞🌞🌞

    I suppose I've been called worse.

    If you bothered to read the link it was from long ago the times the other poster was referring to.



  • Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have a house, not MY problem.

    Government **** up housing is OUR problem. It's absolutely crippling our society.

    I pay taxes for the benefit of society yet all I see is neo lib economics which helps no one but the already wealthy/connected



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23 DisgustedTunbridgeWells


    I get the impression from recent interviews with Leo that he is no longer preoccupied with his current job and is looking beyond it to after the election when I think he will leave politics and head off to a job outside Ireland but not necessarily in the EU. This means he is not that worried about how what he says is received - He has already mentally checked out. If I was in FG I would be wondering now who is going to be leading them after the election or even be around. Micheal Martin does not seem as jaded/bored with it all as Leo even though he has been around the block for alot longer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭Bob Marley Park


    You shouldn't be working and homeless either. You'll find there were more houses available than now.

    I wouldn't be critical of people in need of government supports. Most are working people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    I think one of the problems with SF is that they oppose expensive developments even though, initially, new developments will indeed be expensive until supply increases and eventually prices come down. By blocking new developments, though expensive, SF is preventing increased supply thereby counter-productively keeping prices high.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭scottser


    It is not the state's responsibility to hand out housing but in the interests of proper governance, the conditions allowing citizens to rent or buy a home should be a priority. And while there is no right to housing in Ireland, lack of it impinges upon other rights particularly in relation to childcare, privacy and dignity.

    Education is another thing altogether. It IS the state's duty under law to provide education until children reach 16 years of age.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,458 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Fifty percent marginal tax rate over a pittance of an income. FACTS! Extreme taxation rate over an extremely low level of income...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,213 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    What really amazes me is that Leo Varadkar & Paschal Donohoe both grew up in the working class area of Blanchardstown, both attended state schools (Varadkar primary only), both had their third level fees paid for them. . . . They then join the cult that is Fine Gael and end up to the right of Jacob Rees Mogg or Thatcher on issues political as adults.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,458 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Its not given out for free... its given out for as good as free. Often the tenant will pay the token gesture " rent" with free money they get from other taxpayers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo



    No they don't have to provide free school buses, but then again if they have entered into a contract with you (with you paying) to provide a bus service they should fooking make sure they deliver.


    No they don't have to provide a house for everyone, no more than they have to provide education or healthcare.

    But there is a social contract in most enlightened democratic well to do countries that the state provides some services to it's population particularly those less fortunate.

    Part of this is healthcare, education and social housing.

    The government have abjectly failed in the third using it as means to enrich private entities/individuals and are doing their utmost to fail at the first and second.

    They have in fact made it very difficult for anyone to provide housing.

    They have a complete balls of the housing market with their ineptitude and meddling.

    Even worse they are now on crusade to house non Irish people ahead of their own people which to me is treachery.

    And speaking of education and healthcare they are pathetic at providing new infrastructure as highlighted by kids in prefabs for 3 or more years and the shocking disaster that is the new childrens hospital.

    If you lived in a state where we paid fook all taxes, direct and indirect, then fair enough argue that they owe us nothing.

    But we do damn well pay enough to get some semblance of decent services.

    To drag another government failure into this, look at the value for money the citizens gets for their TV license fee.

    Thousands of them go into the pocket of a connected party member FFS.

    That is all you need to know about Varadker and his party.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    I know it was long ago.

    I got to school on one of those old yellow bangers.

    But it definitely isn't free now.

    I don't mind paying few quid, but what really pisses me off that you sign up to pay for a service that you find out isn't running a couple of days before school starts.

    And then it is nothing to do with them, go talk to Bus Eireann, go talk to Dept of Education, just to get tun around.

    They preside over a fooked up system of transport, educaiton, health, housing and yet we are told how rich the country is.

    Then high flying government party members refuse to engage, running hiding that they have previous engagements.

    Probably like one opening pharmacies and the like.

    Those fookers are going to get a kicking if they show up canvassing.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 92,233 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Will he be remembered as the worst leader for Ireland in history, has he any media communication advisor?

    No matter what people tell you, words and ideas can change this World



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