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March Referendums

145791012

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭older by the day


    I see FG MEPS have voted against their own European party and against Irish farmers.

    You would want to be totally ffucked in the head to trust or vote for any referendum that this government supports.

    I was listening to FF,FG councillors on local radio trying to defend a local bypass only getting 300000. A local walk way got four million and they sent 800 million to Northern Ireland. I don't know what is wrong. I'm personally very worried about this country. The squandaring that is going on will definitely have to be paid for



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,090 ✭✭✭✭893bet


    Disregard that initial part of my post. You are still avoiding my question.

    What advantage do they gain? Protection from what exactly? I really don’t see what’s in it from them (currently at least).

    Post edited by 893bet on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,780 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    I was listening to Lunchtime Live on Newstalk and Andrea had a research professor from Trinity college on giving a well balanced explanation of the proposed changes. He was very careful not to promote either a yes or no vote. After listening to him I have decided to vote no on both amendments. Attached link to the segment - it's worth listening too.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme


    Protection when it comes to the potential for future legislation eroding their rights. You've also failed to state why single parents and their child(ren) would not want to be considered a family under the Constitution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,090 ✭✭✭✭893bet


    I can’t state why the wouldn’t want to. Same as you can’t give a valid reason the change for it other than a protection against some highly unlikely and fictitious erorsion of rights.


    And if neither side has a convincing argument I would like it as is as they are likely plenty of unforeseen negative consequences rather than unseen positives.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme


    I can give a valid reason, you just don't think it's a valid reason. I'm sure there are plenty of single parents and their children who do consider being reconsidered as a family in the Constitution as being important and worthwhile.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    Not going to happen, no one is going to erode the rights of single parents and their children. On the other hand there is guaranteed to be multiple issues with non married couples gaining rights that should only be bestowed up those entering an actual legal tie to each other (i.e. marriage).



  • Posts: 72 ✭✭ Clayton Eager City



    A solicitors take on the referendum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    They are not recognised constitutionally as a family

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,922 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    First a single parent are recognised as a family both in common law and tge constitution make no reference to discrimination against them.

    It recognises marriage as the ideal basis of family and wants to support that. In nearly eighty years since the constitution was first written the support for single parent families has never been in doubts in the state and is now stronger than it ever was.

    Durable relationship is in relationships between couples but its meaning may recognise trouples or polygamous relationships. It not about single parent families where common law recognises the bond between a parent either mother or father and their children whether in a marriage or not. The constitution could never override that even if it tried.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme


    My jaw dropped at this one...

    In nearly eighty years since the constitution was first written the support for single parent families has never been in doubts


    Yes, the support provided by those Mother and baby homes was really never in doubt alright.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 4,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    The more I see from the Yes side, the more I’m inclined to vote No.

    Seeing the pros and cons being teased out on here, there seems to be very little to the Yes side

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,118 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    That was more Catholic Ireland driving that nonsense



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    That's gas, I'd see the opposite, I see nothing at all to favour a no vote only what aboutery and veiled Iona institute style dogma.

    A yes vote is (edit) for equality and removing another layer of discrimination.

    Post edited by Castlekeeper on

    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme


    Catholic Ireland are the ones who wrote the original Consitution. Plenty of people on this thread are desperately pushing for that Catholic driven Constitution not to he amended either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭StormForce13




    Ah, the Mother and Baby homes (I'm a "survivor" of one, incidentally) - the last resort of the desperate debater!

    Playing the "mother and baby homes" card is almost as contemptible as the Netanyahu Hate Gang playing the Holocaust card to justify their antics in Gaza.

    I hope that you have managed to repair your dropped jaw, incidentally, as slack jaws are a very serious problem in my part of the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭StormForce13


    The key word in that comment is "simple". Did you know that it's also a synonym for gullible?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,427 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    What ACTUAL discriminations are currently being applied as a result of the existing constitutions that won't be applied afterwards?

    I don't see any rationale in changing to the new wording when there are so many unknowns about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Photobox


    100%..born in one too, really annoys me seeing people here use it constantly to justify their arguments. Who I'm betting were not born in one and were not even alive in those times.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,628 ✭✭✭Augme


    Yep, fantastic places they were then. It's a shame they still aren't around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭Photobox




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Mod note; Bye bye Augme we have tolerated your crap in F&F for long enough.


    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,514 ✭✭✭tanko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 613 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    What layer of discrimination? All I see this referendum doing is at best severely muddying the waters around the very strong and long standing legal framework of marriage (please don't bring the church into this we are talking about the legal framework) - at worst opening up all sorts of foreseen and unforeseen legal and tax issues, court cases and who knows what else.

    Purely from a legal point of view which is how I am looking at this I can't understand how some seem so ok with this. I Wonder would they be so easy if other legal frameworks were being bypased/eroded/rendered obsolete giving the rights to those without any of the actual commitments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    I fixed that for you, sorry for using an extra word ("simply" not "simple"), I don't think it changed the meaning of the sentence too much? Though removal has lessened it.

    It was used (appropriately?) to suggest that many people are trying to raise scenarios with intent to confused, obfuscate, muddy the waters etc. in order to promote a "No" vote.

    "Gullible" would not work as a synonym in this instance.

    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    What's the purpose of this, I wouldn't know augme from adam(e?) but they only seemed to put forward counter points to those presented. You might as well delete the thread altogether.

    As an other mods byline says "The purpose of debate..." and all that.

    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    So to juxtapose, in the society of when this constitution was created, in which women held most all positions of power, influence, and wealth, it says

    “In particular, the State recognises that by his life within the house, man gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.”

    So to rephrase, the common good cannot be achieved without man leading his life within the house.

    “The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that fathers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.”

    In reality, eighty years on, women are still very much on the back foot on power, earnings, and influence, in our society. I think this is a bad thing and I don't think that articles like this in our constitution help that. It sets a tone for our culture that was never right and should never have been there in the first place.

    Post edited by Castlekeeper on

    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,412 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    !.

    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,118 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    “The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that fathers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.”

    Regardless of who is in the home, the state have failed here with it necessary in so many cases to survive that both people are engaged in labour.



This discussion has been closed.
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